Model Y P vs Rivian R1S

[Ogre]

A lot of that is due to Tesla has a 10 year head start in designing, making, and supporting (the latter two need work, of course) EV’s. Granted some Rivian employees did come from Tesla but still, they are still behind, although I don’t think by much.

This isn’t riffing on Rivian. Just an observation.

Rivian is 5-10 years behind Tesla on manufacturing. On par with Tesla back in the original Roadster days. They are still finding their legs.

 

[Peelz]

Unless my Tesla stock explodes, I’m really not comfortable spending $70k+ on a car. That’s basically carving a year out of retirement. So for my it’s pretty much Cybertruck or maybe another Model Y.

Until the test drive of the Y, I was uncomfortable with spending 30k lol it was 20k+ more than we've EVER spent on a car. My perspective has changed so much now, Im considering replacing my Pathfinder with a performance 3, until the trucks come!

I ride motorcycle most of the time, so its not super financially feasible, but. want. My love for cars disappeared over the years-its returned.

 

[DanDi58]

Agree. You said you were comparing it to non-EVs with your friends.

No, I said that friends ask me about the range and charging times. The non-EV comparison was simply regarding the size of the MY. But no worries. Now I just need someone to build something sporty with 2 doors for my wife....

 

[Ogre]

Until the test drive of the Y, I was uncomfortable with spending 30k lol it was 20k+ more than we've EVER spent on a car. My perspective has changed so much now, Im considering replacing my Pathfinder with a performance 3, until the trucks come!

I ride motorcycle most of the time, so its not super financially feasible, but. want. My love for cars disappeared over the years-its returned.

I thought my Model Y was too expensive and I bought it in February before the price surge.

Right now Teslas are priced with a huge EV premium. That’s good for Tesla (and me as an investor), but bad for me as a buyer.

 

[thesmokingman]

I really like the R1S but the efficiency does bother me. The biggest question my non-EV owner friends ask me is - how far does it go? How long does it take to charge? If the R1S with that size battery doesn't push the envelope, then that's a concern to me. I only want to buy MORE efficient vehicles, not less.

I do have a CT on order but mainly did that (before ordering and getting my MY) for poops and giggles. To me, the MY and R1S aren't comparable at all. Different purposes. And the Mazda CX-5 comparison is spot on - I sold my 2014 CX-5 after getting my MY. The MY is a little bigger in every dimension than the CX-5 (and the Ford Escape) as well. Where they DO differ is height of the load floor. No differential or spare tire means much lower floor in the MY.

The R1S is really compelling considering it's price. You get a lot of comfort, looks, accel, and size for the price. I've even contemplated getting one and trading it with the wife's MYP. She's always been partial to big ass SUVs. I broached the subject and she didn't immediately put it down. I can see the huge ass SUV sparkle in her eyes,.. lol. But then I have huge reservations over it's charging. Even with solar and powerwalls, I won't be making enough power to offset adding a huge load like a daily driven Rivian.

 

[1.21GW]

The R1S is really compelling considering it's price. You get a lot of comfort, looks, accel, and size for the price. I've even contemplated getting one and trading it with the wife's MYP. She's always been partial to big ass SUVs. I broached the subject and she didn't immediately put it down. I can see the huge ass SUV sparkle in her eyes,.. lol. But then I have huge reservations over it's charging. Even with solar and powerwalls, I won't be making enough power to offset adding a huge load like a daily driven Rivian.

As others have said... the R1S will be thirsty! Also with the 11kW on board charger it maxes out at 25 miles or range per hour vs my model 3 doing 45 with that same power. It would effectively be like driving 2 model 3s in terms of power usage.

But if i was in the market for a range rover, this thing would still be a huge fuel cost savings.

 

[WhiteWi]

As others have said... the R1S will be thirsty! Also with the 11kW on board charger it maxes out at 25 miles or range per hour vs my model 3 doing 45 with that same power. It would effectively be like driving 2 model 3s in terms of power usage.

But if i was in the market for a range rover, this thing would still be a huge fuel cost savings.

View attachment 732340

R1S will be great SUV once EA gets their act together and provide reliable charging Infrastructure.

 

[tm1v2]

If I were cross-shopping the R1S and Model Y, it would mean I'm still deciding what kind of vehicle I want. The R1S is very appealing for what it is, and I completely agree with the Land Rover / Range Rover comparisons. (Well, R1S and R1T are appealing except for non-Tesla road trip charging...that makes any non-Tesla EV a really tough sell to me right now.)

But if I don't need R1S size or off-roading capability, I'd rather have something smaller, lighter, more nimble, and more efficient...like a Model Y. That's just me, I like my cars to be no bigger than needed.

(The same comparison can go even smaller of course, e.g. Model 3 vs Model Y.)

 

[Ogre]

If I were cross-shopping the R1S and Model Y, it would mean I'm still deciding what kind of vehicle I want. The R1S is very appealing for what it is, and I completely agree with the Land Rover / Range Rover comparisons. (Well, R1S and R1T are appealing except for non-Tesla road trip charging...that makes any non-Tesla EV a really tough sell to me right now.)

But if I don't need R1S size or off-roading capability, I'd rather have something smaller, lighter, more nimble, and more efficient...like a Model Y. That's just me, I like my cars to be no bigger than needed.

(The same comparison can go even smaller of course, e.g. Model 3 vs Model Y.)

The way the incentives are, the pricing is quite similar which I suspect is a big part of why the R1S is compelling. When I bought my Model Y there was a $15k difference in prices and it wasn’t really a compare. Not the gap is much smaller. If the incentives hit, then the price gap returns.

To me, the Model Y just isn’t super compelling at these prices. The incentives will bring things closer to sanity (until Tesla bumps the prices *again*).

 

[WhiteWi]

The way the incentives are, the pricing is quite similar which I suspect is a big part of why the R1S is compelling. When I bought my Model Y there was a $15k difference in prices and it wasn’t really a compare. Not the gap is much smaller. If the incentives hit, then the price gap returns.

To me, the Model Y just isn’t super compelling at these prices. The incentives will bring things closer to sanity (until Tesla bumps the prices *again*).

But what else can we do? After Tesla I don’t want anything else now.

 

[GeekyDoc]

Thanks for this thread OP and great info here. Similar thought process in my head only not the MYP but another tesla vs the R1S. However the X is way over the budget for us and we would like to replace the wife's MDX with another EV; the R1S comes really close. Only factor for me is the charging infrastructure is so unreliable at the moment and the R1S would be our family's road trip car. Granted we won't use off-home charging a lot but when we do need to, nothing currently beats Tesla's footprint and reliability. I suspect though that by the time our reservations are filled, the charging infrastructure might have matured a bit more.

 

[Ogre]

The big catch with the Rivian is you don’t even really know if or when it’s going to be produced. The truck is coming up on it’s 1y late-iversary and in spite of tons of press and media, they aren’t producing enough to meet even the first customers orders. Rivian should be focused 100% on ramping up the truck right now, but they may well push production forward on the R1S so they will be trying to figure out their first 2 production lines at the same time. That’s just asking for more delays.

Rivian said they are expecting to finish with pre-orders by end of year 2023 and maybe they are, but that means if you order now, you are looking at 2024 delivery. By then, the market may have shifted completely. Tesla might be selling the Model X for a sane price.

It’s just hard to buy a truck from an unknown company who is clearly struggling to get a handful of trucks out the door when you know it’s going to be 2+ years before delivery. If you have an order in already, might as well stick it out. I just can’t see tossing my hat into that ring now though.

 

[Ogre]

But what else can we do? After Tesla I don’t want anything else now.

Wait.

In this case, time is definitely your friend.

If you can’t wait, then there is no “Model Y or R1S” decision because the R1S is so far out.

 

[thesmokingman]

The big catch with the Rivian is you don’t even really know if or when it’s going to be produced. The truck is coming up on it’s 1y late-iversary and in spite of tons of press and media, they aren’t producing enough to meet even the first customers orders. Rivian should be focused 100% on ramping up the truck right now, but they may well push production forward on the R1S so they will be trying to figure out their first 2 production lines at the same time. That’s just asking for more delays.

Rivian said they are expecting to finish with pre-orders by end of year 2023 and maybe they are, but that means if you order now, you are looking at 2024 delivery. By then, the market may have shifted completely. Tesla might be selling the Model X for a sane price.

It’s just hard to buy a truck from an unknown company who is clearly struggling to get a handful of trucks out the door when you know it’s going to be 2+ years before delivery. If you have an order in already, might as well stick it out. I just can’t see tossing my hat into that ring now though.

Yea, this is the hard reality with Rivian. They are not good with production evidenced by their ability to only produce two vehicles on average per day at best. Adding salt to that they are prioritizing employees over paying customers at this time which personally I think is ridiculous. I don't know where their priorities lie atm. And at this rate of production, they will burn thru the IPO money before they can meet the pre-order obligations. Realistically you won't get a R1S for years...

 

[WhiteWi]

Wait.

In this case, time is definitely your friend.

If you can’t wait, then there is no “Model Y or R1S” decision because the R1S is so far out.

Oh, I have model Y EDD Feb-Mar (sold my 16 S), and by the time Cybertruck comes around we will be ready to trade in our 2020 M3.

 

[LionelHutz]

Good points.

I would just add about the gas guzzler part is that the Rivian is ironically an ev guzzler. It's efficiency is not great. It gets 315 mile range with a whopping 135kwh battery. That is huge. This leads to the unfortunate reality that an owner will be spending huge amounts of time charging it. And from what we've seen with the R1T in limited reviews, public charging is not looking great though it is still early times. Brownlee in his review wasn't able to sustain a decent charge rate which meant he'd have to sit there for a really long time. Compare the efficiency of the MYP at 300 mile @82kwh battery (used the P since it's more in line with R1T accel) versus 315mile @135kwh battery. As the specs show these are two very different products, they don't compete in the same bracket.

Well, yeah. It is a way bigger vehicle than the Y, with nearly 2x the power, and an open bed. It wasn't built to maximize efficiency.

Interesting note, however--MYP is rated at 303 miles but Edmunds tested to 260 miles. R1T is rated at 314 miles and Edmunds tested to 317 miles (with offroad package cladding). That narrows the efficiency gap a good chunk.

 

[LionelHutz]

Yea, this is the hard reality with Rivian. They are not good with production evidenced by their ability to only produce two vehicles on average per day at best. Adding salt to that they are prioritizing employees over paying customers at this time which personally I think is ridiculous. I don't know where their priorities lie atm. And at this rate of production, they will burn thru the IPO money before they can meet the pre-order obligations. Realistically you won't get a R1S for years...

This is a little disingenuous. Rivian is clearly in the baby steps phase of production, and I can't really blame them for wanting to put most of those early cars in the hands of employees for real-world testing. A Sandy Munro-style video on production flaws would be bad press. I believe the target production by EOY is ~1200 vehicles.

 

[cypho]

I have a Rivian pre-order. But I think the OP would be happier with a Y.

I hardly see the point in cross-shopping these 2. If you need the increased space, towing, or off-road ability, the Model Y isn't an option. If you don't need any of those things, as the OP says they don't, the Tesla Y is a clear winner.

 

[thesmokingman]

This is a little disingenuous. Rivian is clearly in the baby steps phase of production, and I can't really blame them for wanting to put most of those early cars in the hands of employees for real-world testing. A Sandy Munro-style video on production flaws would be bad press. I believe the target production by EOY is ~1200 vehicles.

lol wut? They already have a test fleet. That's what all those years of pre-production were for, They are in production now. How are they gonna hit 1200 vehicles at a rate of two a day at best? No one is expecting massive production numbers at this point but the rate that they are going at is abysmal and they are prioritizing internal deliveries over customers.

 

[Ogre]

Yea, this is the hard reality with Rivian. They are not good with production evidenced by their ability to only produce two vehicles on average per day at best. Adding salt to that they are prioritizing employees over paying customers at this time which personally I think is ridiculous. I don't know where their priorities lie atm. And at this rate of production, they will burn thru the IPO money before they can meet the pre-order obligations. Realistically you won't get a R1S for years...

Giving the cars to employees is normal at this stage of production.

Most car companies wouldn’t even call this production, it’s product testing. It is pretty typical for the first 1000 or so vehicles to go to employees and internal fleets while they work out the bugs in the process. Rivian fudged things a lot so they could look good for their IPO. The fact that the media has glossed this all over is a testament to how thorough they aren’t.

Rivian was a bit nuts trying to launch their company with 3 vehicles at the same time. Their resources are spread very thin. The next six months are pretty critical for their success.