I have a totally different philosophy here. I've rented cars for 1000 mile round-trips instead of driving far less expensive cars than the Model S. For such long distances I'd much rather put the miles on a rental rather than my own. And it makes even more sense to get a rental, when you're car's an EV and it would take you 10 days to make the trip!! Unless you like torturing yourself with multi-hour long stops every 200 miles on a very long trip, why not just swallow your pride and get a rental? You'd save money on hotels and the depreciation of your own car.
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Motor Trend: World Exclusive! 2012 Tesla Model S Test and Range Verification
- Thread starter FalconNinetyD
- Start date
I have a totally different philosophy here. I've rented cars for 1000 mile round-trips instead of driving far less expensive cars than the Model S. For such long distances I'd much rather put the miles on a rental rather than my own. And it makes even more sense to get a rental, when you're car's an EV and it would take you 10 days to make the trip!! Unless you like torturing yourself with multi-hour long stops every 200 miles on a very long trip, why not just swallow your pride and get a rental? You'd save money on hotels and the depreciation of your own car.
Krugerrand
Meow
That would certainly work for you. Many other people like to 'enjoy' the trip (it's the journey, not the destination :smile
and are not in a rush to get from point A to point B; like to get out and stretch their legs, sight-see, try new restaurants, meet people etc... Clearly, if it's all business and your trip is beyond the range and you're The Transporter on a tight schedule regularly evading cops and bad guys, then an expensive model rental with full insurance coverage is the way to go. :wink:
As wonderful as the Model S is, it's clearly not meant to be the only car a family owns. Because of what you just typed.
The sweet spot for the Model S is when it will be one car in a multi-car family where one of the other cars can be used for the long "drive all over the country quickly" trips. The Model S buyer can then pick the battery to suit their desire for power and range. In that scenario, the Model S works beautifully.
Whether the MS can be our only car depends a lot on the supercharger network. The northeast is much denser than other parts of the country, so I expect that we'll do fine without relying on an ICE. We'll keep the BMW 5 until we see how Gen3 evolved.
ljbad4life
Member
I agree with this attitude. I live in NYC I have many major cities (boston, washington dc, philadelphia, baltimore, providence) all within zero to one charge (and it doesn't even have to be a supercharge to get to the furthest cities like DC, which is 220 miles from NYC). The Model S would be my only car. I can only see a problem if I went west where the cities are spread out.
I'm with Jerry on this one. Forking out this kind of cash just to rent a (insert name of POS rental car here) when you really want to drive somewhere... no. I'm going to get my money's worth and put as many miles on this puppy as possible.
Charging station power draw is 100% of max. *Plug draw* is 80% of max. So J1772 will be 30 amp and the 14-50 will be 40 amp. You'll also likely be getting a 208v (~200v effective) circuit instead of 240v.
The Roadster is rated for 245 at 55. I won't go over 180 miles with normal driving without including charging on my trip (personal preference and driving style - e.g. 70+ MPH). The Model S, using the same rating system, is rated for 300 (the 265 mile rating is a different system). I should be able to go 220 miles before I personally start worrying about including charging. If you have no choice, slow down and you'll easily get more than 220 miles.
Along the same lines, I'd take more than 5 miles for cushion - detours, hard rain or wind, etc.
my personal use for the model S will be everyday commuter (which will vary from 10 miles to 60 miles RT depending on job, i'm freelance..) and will use it for whatever else i possibly can, shopping, airport runs, etc etc. with my driving style (i've had bmw's for the last 12 years), which is aggressive speed-wise -- not aggressive towards other drivers, even though i live in los angeles! -- i expected closer to 200 mi range on the 85kWh batt anyway. i don't feel comfortable going less than 80 if i can. the cars i've had even feel more at home at those speeds then say, 60, lol. i expect to punch the accel often on the MSP and feel fully justified in doing so. i happen to like to drive, i enjoy a smooth, exciting, in control, driving experience. that's why i'm buying this car. it's been a longtime dream to be all electric. i have solar electricity in my main home in ca and in both family vacation spots (no we're not rich, just have planned for years and have modest cabins/cottages in maine and montana, i feel grateful and lucky..) so driving on photons feels so fully one with the earth and guilt or concern free that it makes me almost giddy with the thought.....
and when i need to drive to montana or camping in yosemite or whathaveyou, i will rent an ICE machine and feel perfectly fine that i'm using the right machines for the right jobs. i should only need to rent once or twice a year and other than that will pass gas stations by with nary a glance and love every second of it.
fwiw!
and when i need to drive to montana or camping in yosemite or whathaveyou, i will rent an ICE machine and feel perfectly fine that i'm using the right machines for the right jobs. i should only need to rent once or twice a year and other than that will pass gas stations by with nary a glance and love every second of it.
fwiw!
Model S will be my only car. I know from experience that I drive outside its capabilities once or twice a year at most. Not far enough to be worth owning a second car (and as I'm single, there's no significant other who needs a car). But, I am a pilot, and for longer trips, I tend to fly (either myself in a small plane, or I just hop an airline).
Dtich:
Here's the problem many of us have.
After driving in a car that takes no gas you begin to despise getting gas. You hate the idea of getting gas. With every fiber of your being the repulsive idea of pulling in and paying for gas nauseates beyond comprehension.*
So you come up with schemes and plans on how to drive electric all the time. Even when it's not practical or logical.
The siren song of EV silence pulls the owner behind the wheel. Soon you will be under it's spell.
(* exaggerate much?*)
Good article, definitley made me think about the tradeoff between the 85kwh and 60kwh pack. I recently revised my configuration down to the 60kwh because I didn't think the extra 10k was worth it. I figured 230 miles was enough for most cases, but it may be nowhere close to the that depending on that conditions.
That said, paying an extra 10k to be able to use the Model S in those extra few cases when my ICE will do doesn't seem worth it.
That said, paying an extra 10k to be able to use the Model S in those extra few cases when my ICE will do doesn't seem worth it.
Rifleman
Now owns 2 Model S's!!!
Thanks to all that commented on my roadtrip.
Regarding car rentals, the fun is of course taking the Model S on a long road trip - I wouldn't have it any other way.
I'm an experienced EV driver and put 550+ miles on a converted EV in 4-1/2 days in TX, when all I could work with was a 55-60 mile range (highway speeds of 55-60 mph). So, I've been through this before and know the score. Basically, with enough adaptors you can get anywhere!
In terms of buying gas, I've been doing so only for the last month since I sold my converted EV. I hate it - I can't wait until I can sell the ICE (which I will do just before Model S is delivered). It's so much easier charging!
Regarding car rentals, the fun is of course taking the Model S on a long road trip - I wouldn't have it any other way.
I'm an experienced EV driver and put 550+ miles on a converted EV in 4-1/2 days in TX, when all I could work with was a 55-60 mile range (highway speeds of 55-60 mph). So, I've been through this before and know the score. Basically, with enough adaptors you can get anywhere!
In terms of buying gas, I've been doing so only for the last month since I sold my converted EV. I hate it - I can't wait until I can sell the ICE (which I will do just before Model S is delivered). It's so much easier charging!
CapitalistOppressor
Active Member
I was originally strongly for the 60 but switched to the 85 because I wanted maximum durability, as well as the range. 180-200 miles of range is an absolute must have for me, but now I'm pretty convinced that I would need to hypermile in the 60 to achieve that, especially in 5-10 years once degradation starts to take a real bite.
Now, I am basically figuring you can count on the three batteries to do ~100, ~150 and ~200+ without having to feel like you need to compromise much, while accounting for long term degradation. Though in the case of the 40kWh it might be closer to a solid 80 mile range after 8 years and 100k miles. Regardless, until I see real world tests of the 40 and 60 I am going to be hesitant to cite mileage for them when talking to people about the car.
Now, I am just waiting to hear what the big "way cooler than you think" secret is about the SuperCharger network. If it's a battery swap system then the 40kWh car becomes extremely viable for a much larger number of buyers.
It's a "luxury" feature. Same as paying $3750 for the tech package, or $10,000 for the performance - these aren't "worth it" in hard financial terms, but make life easier/more fun.
The battery options seem to be shaping up as three distinct propositions:
- 40KWh. Suitable as a local-use car - can't be road-tripped (except as a challenge on the basis that "if it wasn't difficult it wouldn't be worth doing"). For people who have another car, who are happy to make other arrangements for their long distance travel (rental/train/plane etc), or who simply don't take road trips.
- 60KWh. Adequate for most people. Will occasionally be inconvenienced by charging in ordinary use. Road trips possible with care.
- 85KWh. Luxury. Can almost always drive without having to think about charging. Road trips easily handled.
The 'road trip' part of this assumes superchargers spaced so that 60KWh can reach them with cautious driving, while 85KWh cars can drive with abandon.
Battery swap would concern me because some people will not take care of the battery. Some will over-use range mode or fail to top off everyday etc.
I totally agree. Unless the battery were owned by Tesla and leased to the owner, swapping would be a lawsuit magnet for them.
I suspect that many long trips will be round trips (most people go home again), so maybe the "swapped" battery is a loaner? It could be a nominal charge for a like-capacity battery and a steep charge to get a bigger battery (don't want to discourage people from buying for "peak requirements").