Blog Musk Touts ‘Quantum Leap” in Full Self-Driving Performance

A “quantum leap” improvement is coming to Tesla’s Autopilot software in six to 10 weeks, Chief Executive Elon Musk said a tweet.

Musk called the new software a “fundamental architectural rewrite, not an incremental tweak.”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1294374864657162240

Musk said his personal car is running a “bleeding edge alpha build” of the software, which he also mentioned during Tesla’s Q2 earnings. 

“So it’s almost getting to the point where I can go from my house to work with no interventions, despite going through construction and widely varying situations,” Musk said on the earnings call. “So this is why I am very confident about full self-driving functionality being complete by the end of this year, is because I’m literally driving it.”

Tesla’s Full Self-Driving software has been slow to roll out against the company’s promises. Musk previously said a Tesla would drive from Los Angeles to New York using the Full Self Driving feature by the end of 2019. The company didn’t meet that goal. So, it will be interesting to see the state of Autopilot at the end of 2020.

 

[powertoold]

(Really, we should just let this drop, though. It's very very very clear that Autosteer does not work on city streets. There is no debate. There are much more interesting things to talk about.)

There is a debate though. It DOES work, but Tesla doesn't recommend it. It's funny b/c again, Tesla provides a video of it being used.

I was just pointing out that the wording is very confusing, which it is.

Also, I use autosteer on city streets all the time. It's a nice aid because I know when it's likely to fail.

 

[Eno Deb]

Can you explain? This is news to me - maybe I missed something in the pandemic! (A freeway in the city doesn't count!)

Where else do you think are FSD owners supposed to use the traffic light control? Autosteer has worked on city streets for quite a while, and it's not an accident since it behaves differently than on highways (it limits the speed to speed limit+5mph, which it doesn't on highways).

What the manual says is just CYA, since it's far from reliable ...

 

[DanCar]

... Tesla has videos showing autosteer being used on city streets. See the Autopilot support page I linked earlier (the traffic control feature video):

Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability

Good point. Since the video is dated later than the manual, one could argue the manual info is deprecated. And also the traffic lights and stop sign info also contradicts the manual. So Tesla needs to update the manual to remove the confusion.

 

[diplomat33]

The wording is very confusing. Autosteer does work on city streets.

Autopilot

• Traffic-Aware Cruise Control: Matches the speed of your car to that of the surrounding traffic
• Autosteer: Assists in steering within a clearly marked lane, and uses traffic-aware cruise control

Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability

Yeah, that's just regular Autosteer they are "testing." It doesn't work on city streets, even if it is used there.

Can you explain? This is news to me - maybe I missed something in the pandemic! (A freeway in the city doesn't count!)

Do you mean it doesn't work all the time, or it is not guaranteed to work? There are plenty of youtube videos that shows it works in simple cases, i.e. straight roads, which is the vast majority of cases.

The FSD feature "autosteer on city streets" is confusing. It does not refer to just autosteer working on city streets. Autosteer already "works" on city streets in the sense that you can turn it on city streets and it will lane keep. But it is very limited on city streets. So the FSD feature "autosteer on city street" must refer to autosteer doing something more than what it does currently. "Autosteer on city streets" probably refers to autosteer being able to make turns at intersections, or handling roundabouts. Keep in mind that Tesla used to call the FSD feature "automatic driving on city streets" but changed it to "autosteer on city streets". It seems that "automatic driving" implied it could fully self-drive which was too ambitious so Tesla dumbed it down to just something that implies "autosteer will do more stuff on city streets".

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Where else do you think are FSD owners supposed to use the traffic light control?

I assume traffic light control works when you don't have Autosteer engaged....I don't have HW3 yet so I have no idea.

There is a debate though. It DOES work, but Tesla doesn't recommend it.

utosteer has worked on city streets for quite a while, and it's not an accident since it behaves differently than on highways (it limits the speed to speed limit+5mph, which it doesn't on highways).

Perhaps Tesla need to update their owner's manual? This seems like...not a recommendation.

 

[Eno Deb]

I assume traffic light control works when you don't have Autosteer engaged....I don't have HW3 yet so I have no idea.

It only works if either TACC or TACC+Autosteer is enabled.

Perhaps Tesla need to update their owner's manual? This seems like...not a recommendation.

As I wrote above, CYA. They know full well that it's not ready for primetime. E.g. it often picks the wrong lane when the markings are a bit ambiguous. I'm curios if they will remove this from the manual when the new "Autosteer on city streets" (the one which is supposed to be able to make turns etc.) comes out ...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The FSD feature "autosteer on city streets"

I don't doubt that when Autosteer on city streets exists (and works), this section of the owner's manual referenced above will be updated for users that have FSD, to allow use on city streets (it'll have to be reworked probably because there will be a section for people who have simple Autosteer and another section for Autosteer on City Streets).

It does seem like the manual is contradictory, to be quite honest, since traffic light recognition works even on city streets, and Autosteer (or TACC) can be in use. It working in TACC-only mode as well gives them a little wiggle room to say only TACC is actually "allowed."

But as far as I am concerned this means that "Autosteer" doesn't work on city streets, and what is released now is some sort of weird chimera, a half step towards "Autosteer on city streets."

I agree it is confusing, and to me it seems pretty clear that the Autosteer "do not use on city streets" supersedes any other verbiage. But people will do what they want. 'Murica.

I didn't realize it stopped for green lights too (is that right?)!

(it limits the speed to speed limit+5mph,

Speed is limited to the speed limit when using the Traffic Light control (you presumably knew this and were referring to Autosteer only of course). Another sign of Tesla's concern. They are really wiggling around on this one any way they can. So much pressure. Hopefully the rewrite solves everything!

 

[diplomat33]

I don't doubt that when Autosteer on city streets exists (and works), this section of the owner's manual referenced above will be updated for users that have FSD, to allow use on city streets (it'll have to be reworked probably because there will be a section for people who have simple Autosteer and another section for Autosteer on City Streets).

It does seem like the manual is contradictory, to be quite honest, since traffic light recognition works even on city streets, and Autosteer (or TACC) can be in use. It working in TACC-only mode as well gives them a little wiggle room to say only TACC is actually "allowed."

But as far as I am concerned this means that "Autosteer" doesn't work on city streets, and what is released now is some sort of weird chimera, a half step towards "Autosteer on city streets."

I agree it is confusing, and to me it seems pretty clear that the Autosteer "do not use on city streets" supersedes any other verbiage. But people will do what they want. 'Murica.

I didn't realize it stopped for green lights too (is that right?)!

View attachment 591563

Speed is limited to the speed limit when using the Traffic Light control (you presumably knew this and were referring to Autosteer only of course). Another sign of Tesla's concern. They are really wiggling around on this one any way they can. So much pressure. Hopefully the rewrite solves everything!

What is weird to me is that Tesla does not simply disable autosteer on city streets if it is not designed to be used on city streets.

I think a good way to look at it is that autosteer can be used on city streets but is not designed to handle city streets. Autosteer is designed to lane keep between two lane lines which may or may not apply to city streets. What the FSD feature called "autosteer on city streets" will do is make autosteer able to handle city streets correctly. So with "autosteer on city streets", autosteer will be designed to work on city streets.

 

[johnm]

Well, autosteer essentially "always" works on city streets. Tesla doesn't recommend it, but it works (albeit poorly IMO), lol.

Tesla has videos showing autosteer being used on city streets. See the Autopilot support page I linked earlier (the traffic control feature video):

Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability

My experience is that autosteer doesn't work on roads without lines. Is there a trick to getting it to engage on roads without lines? Are there places where essentially all city streets have lines?

 

[cucubits]

My experience is that autosteer doesn't work on roads without lines. Is there a trick to getting it to engage on roads without lines? Are there places where essentially all city streets have lines?

It sort of works when there are no lines if you engage it while there are still lines visible. Also helps if it has another car to follow.

 

[diplomat33]

Mobileye is deploying hands-free ADAS that works on highway, connected roads and city streets. It's called SuperVision and will use 11 cameras, 2 EyeQ5 chips, and Mobileye's own Driving Policy and HD maps too. Mobileye will also provide their own OTA updates to cars. It is coming to Chinese EVs next year.

https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2020/09/supervision-product-brief.pdf

Why the Geely Auto Group Win is a Game Changer | Intel Newsroom

Tesla needs to show us what the famed rewrite can do. If not, it looks like Mobileye just jumped ahead of Tesla.

 

[goRt]

Tesla needs to show us what the famed rewrite can do. If not, it looks like Mobileye just jumped ahead of Tesla.

Due late this year

 

[diplomat33]

Due late this year

Well let's see. Feature Complete was due last year and we are still waiting.

 

[_jal_]

I didn't realize it stopped for green lights too (is that right?)!

Yes. When you approach a green light and there is no car ahead of you, it tells you to either press the accelerator or pull the stalk. Once you do that, it will proceed through the green light otherwise it will stop. If you're following a car, it proceeds through the green light.

 

[cucubits]

Yes. When you approach a green light and there is no car ahead of you, it tells you to either press the accelerator or pull the stalk. Once you do that, it will proceed through the green light otherwise it will stop. If you're following a car, it proceeds through the green light.

I can see this creating some pretty dangerous scenarios. If the driver is not always paying 100% attention and the car starts breaking at a green light, it increases the chances to get rear ended. Not sure how this works in other states but in texas, green, especially if it's been on for a while, means one must needlessly accelerate to make sure he/she gets to pass. No one expects a car to break at a green light.

Most of the times I do slow down before a green light. Red, for the cross traffic, is also regarded as optional. Texans are special, they even got red light cameras voted out last year *facepalm*.

 

[diplomat33]

I can see this creating some pretty dangerous scenarios. If the driver is not always paying 100% attention and the car starts breaking at a green light, it increases the chances to get rear ended. Not sure how this works in other states but in texas, green, especially if it's been on for a while, means one must needlessly accelerate to make sure he/she gets to pass. No one expects a car to break at a green light.

The new "chime on green" feature, that just came out, does help with this by giving the driver an auditory warning when the light is green in case they miss it. But generally, I agree that defaulting to stopping at a green is potentially problematic. I've had some close calls with almost getting rear ended because the car started to brake at the green light and the car behind me was not expecting it.

 

[_jal_]

It can certainly be very dangerous! It's totally not expected behavior. Same with phantom braking or stopping for flashing yellow warning lights. There is a lot of behavior dangerous about AP now

 

[_jal_]

The new "chime on green" feature, that just came out, does help with this by giving the driver an auditory warning when the light is green in case they miss it. But generally, I agree that defaulting to stopping at a green is potentially problematic. I've had some close calls with almost getting rear ended because the car started to brake at the green light and the car behind me was not expecting it.

There's a big intersection near me. First time I went through it I got the chime, so pulled the stalk. Then halfway through the intersection it slammed on the brakes because it saw the green light on the other side of the intersection and needed input again to proceed. I freaked

 

[diplomat33]

There's a big intersection near me. First time I went through it I got the chime, so pulled the stalk. Then halfway through the intersection it slammed on the brakes because it saw the green light on the other side of the intersection and needed input again to proceed. I freaked

Yeah, I've experienced this too.

 

[MrBadger]

There's a big intersection near me. First time I went through it I got the chime, so pulled the stalk. Then halfway through the intersection it slammed on the brakes because it saw the green light on the other side of the intersection and needed input again to proceed. I freaked

I get confused here in UK when there are traffic lights on a roundabout or a light controlled pedestrian crossing immediately prior to a junction. You accept the first, but you are then immediately faces with the car starting to slow/stop for the next. We have not had this feature here for very long and TBH, until now my TACC/AP experience has been limited to major roads, so I'm probably still in the just learning category, but its certainly is not high on the "don't make me think" features.