MX 0-60 Increases! (75D and 100D)

[Seattle Tom]

The difference for the 100D Model X is very minor, maybe .1 or .2 seconds faster to 60 mph. It previously got there in 4.7-ish seconds so this isn't a big deal.

Tesla Model X 100D Performance Testing 0-60 MPH and 1/4 Mile

 

[smac]

As long as there are people willing to trade their 6 months old Tesla for slightly bigger battery/new AP/0.1 better 0-60, etc. believe you me- they will continue along this path!

Oh the joys of sustainable transport

 

[AnxietyRanger]

This is no different than any other manufacturer coming out with a new model year.

Actually, it is significantly different.

I have made this point before.

Tesla changes their products every quarter, often several times each quarter. When the delivery time (especially for international orders) can easily span a period of longer than quarter, it is quite possible you can never order a car and get the latest one.

With traditional model years (or even half-year upgrade cycles) you can at least plan your purchase. Tesla plays quarterly demand lever games, because they refuse to use pricing or advertisements to drive sales, so this risk is much higher with Tesla than other brands.

This is like Apple coming out with a new top of the line iPhone at random times each quarter instead of once every autumn. Except this is a $100k+ iPhone. And instead of getting the phone in a day or two, you need to wait for 2-6 months for it to be delivered...

Timing a Tesla buy is terribly difficult. I will be glad to buy something else next time, much less stressful.

 

[number12]

Actually, it is significantly different.

I have made this point before.

Tesla changes their products every quarter, often several times each quarter. When the delivery time (especially for international orders) can easily span a period of longer than quarter, it is quite possible you can never order a car and get the latest one.

With traditional model years (or even half-year upgrade cycles) you can at least plan your purchase. Tesla plays quarterly demand lever games, because they refuse to use pricing or advertisements to drive sales, so this risk is much higher with Tesla than other brands.

This is like Apple coming out with a new top of the line iPhone at random times each quarter instead of once every autumn. Except this is a $100k+ iPhone.

Timing a Tesla buy is terribly difficult. I will be glad to buy something else next time, much less stressful.

I agree with everything you said. I would add one point to your second to last sentence.

I wish there was a way to tell every potential tesla buyer that there are key days to wait for. Second week of every quarter for big announcements.

Right now I would say way for model 3 launch and Oct 15th.

Tesla closes factory first week every quarter for tune ups... aka big changes. Ie facelift refresh AP1 AP2 etc

 

[RubberToe]

I agree with everything you said. I would add one point to your second to last sentence.

I wish there was a way to tell every potential tesla buyer that there are key days to wait for. Second week of every quarter for big announcements.

Right now I would say way for model 3 launch and Oct 15th.

Tesla closes factory first week every quarter for tune ups... aka big changes. Ie facelift refresh AP1 AP2 etc

Can anyone verify that the Model S and X lines are down this week for the upgrades?

RT

 

[Cloxxki]

Am I the only one curious to know HOW they did this?
Interesting that for 0-60 the motors are now the main limiting factor, apparently.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I agree with everything you said. I would add one point to your second to last sentence.

I wish there was a way to tell every potential tesla buyer that there are key days to wait for. Second week of every quarter for big announcements.

Right now I would say way for model 3 launch and Oct 15th.

Tesla closes factory first week every quarter for tune ups... aka big changes. Ie facelift refresh AP1 AP2 etc

Yes, indeed there are some indicators that we can use to predict changes. For example, I had been telling for weeks to postpone orders until Q3 to see how Model 3 would affect Model S/X. Here is the first effect, obviously, Model 3 performance pushing changes to Model S/X. This change, in that way, was actually somehow predictable given all that we know of Tesla...

That they made the change on the first day instead of the second week of the quarter, though, shows certain impatience on their part... It did not quite fit the pattern, though realistically there is not much a of pattern anyway, changes do happen many times a quarter. The only thing that is somehow predictable is that announcements/changes are aiming at maximizing current-quarter deliveries...

International customers have the biggest problem. There really is no way to order a Tesla for in-quarter delivery for most. An international delivery can span two, even three quarters from order. Planning for changes becomes pretty much impossible.

Personally I think I got lucky with the car in my signature, but even that was with one refused delivery. It really is hard to plan for, Tesla buying.

 

[Frankman60]

I think your comparison to Apple is a good one. But with Apple there are a lot more information "leaks" and a few official announcements by Apple that help decide the timing of a purchase. That type of information is not available with Tesla. And as you mentioned, if you purchase an iPhone today and Apple rolls out a much better iPhone six months from now it isn't a big deal to trade in the old iPhone and buy the new one. Some people keep a vehicle for many years so timing the purchase is important to have the latest features/performance for the longest time possible. I have not been a Tesla owner that long, but it seems that Tesla has increased the frequency of updates/changes since I purchased my AP1 MS in July 2016. It might be wise for Tesla to roll out hardware changes no more than once or twice per year, or potential customers may wait on the sidelines until the frequency of change slows. And some of these potential customers may not ever buy a Tesla if the changes are too frequent. Leasing rather than purchasing a Tesla might be the best way to compensate for the rapid changes, similar to the Apple iPhone upgrade plan where the iPhone is leased and exchanged for the newest model each year.

Actually, it is significantly different.

I have made this point before.

Tesla changes their products every quarter, often several times each quarter. When the delivery time (especially for international orders) can easily span a period of longer than quarter, it is quite possible you can never order a car and get the latest one.

With traditional model years (or even half-year upgrade cycles) you can at least plan your purchase. Tesla plays quarterly demand lever games, because they refuse to use pricing or advertisements to drive sales, so this risk is much higher with Tesla than other brands.

This is like Apple coming out with a new top of the line iPhone at random times each quarter instead of once every autumn. Except this is a $100k+ iPhone.

Timing a Tesla buy is terribly difficult. I will be glad to buy something else next time, much less stressful.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Nice post, thank you @Frankman60.

It might be wise for Tesla to roll out hardware changes no more than once or twice per year, or potential customers may wait on the sidelines until the frequency of change slows.

Indeed. I too have made the point that Tesla may actually be creating a sort of pereptual Osbrone effect where their most loyal customers are constantly a little reluctant to upgrade. Unlike with that iPhone, where the loyal customers look forward to that clear upgrade moment in time every year, with Tesla there almost this sort of dread about pulling the trigger and never knowing what will change between now and the moment you get your car (or soon afterwards) and whether or not you get that change or not...

I don't know. I almost feel relieved to have gotten my Model X and gotten the timing right. I am definitely not in any kind of a hurry to buy another Tesla anytime soon. This is completely a new feeling for me. Normally I have been a constant car upgrader within the brands I've grown to like. With Tesla the product just keeps changing (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse) and every quarter is filled with all sorts of weird games to get our attention and at some point it has just stopped being fun and exciting.

I missed out on the D + Autopilot with my first Tesla (international delivery was a few weeks after...), but I still think that was the last time Tesla got a product cycle upgrade at least a bit more right. They bundled enough in there to make it a clear upgrade point for loyal customers. (If we forget about the P85D HP misleading.) I wouldn't mind such moments every few years. But since then it has been a piecemeal after piecemeal, numerous changes each and every quarter...

 

[hockeythug]

I feel like I'm in a crazy factory...

Every other car manufacture pre releases new year upgrades... let's you decide you want to wait and pay closer to sticker or get "previous year" at a discount to level the playing field (i.e. 2017 leaf to keep it in EV perspective)

How many times can this concept be hashed out?

Next someone will say you got exactly what you paid for... (unpredictable depreciation).

Well, yes. You know what's available when you place the order. You can decide to wait if you want a new door latch or whatever other minor change they make.

I don't appreciate your first comment though. What are you trying to say?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Well, yes. You know what's available when you place the order. You can decide to wait if you want a new door latch or whatever other minor change they make.

Of course, we know (usually) what's available when we order. Not always, but most of the time...

The thing is, though, that availability will be relative to what is available by the time we take delivery or soon afterwards. There can be both rational differences (e.g. depreciation and price changes) as well as emotional (like wanting to enjoy the latest and greatest for a while). Reasons that can make the purchase experience better or worse depending on what happens after you pull the trigger...

This is why many people plan, read news and use services like Buyer's Guides (e.g. for Macs iPhone, iPad, Mac Buyer's Guide: Know When to Buy) and sites that list when cars get facelifts and major model changes... All that can work quite well for the average product, but Tesla is very different. The changes to the product happen at a completely unprecedented rate. I have a hard time thinking of any other, non-software mass-market product that changes - on the feature level - as often as a Tesla (several times each quarter).

And definitely extra difficult for a custom product with delivery times spanning from a month to six months depending on where you live and at which point in the quarterly cycle you order...

Not all care about such things, of course, but those who do will have a hard time buying a Tesla.

 

[Pilot Steve]

The bigger question is when. Love Tesla, however they are not prompt with promised improvements. I hope soon and super excited for all my updates, it's like getting a new car with most updates. So Elon, please hurry!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The bigger question is when. Love Tesla, however they are not prompt with promised improvements. I hope soon and super excited for all my updates, it's like getting a new car with most updates. So Elon, please hurry!

Well, only as long as you have the same hardware as the latest on-sale Tesla model, so it makes sense for Tesla to keep investing in that particular update.

Once that HUD/Model 3 based system replaces the current legacy central unit and AP3 replaces our AP1/AP2, expect things to get sparse...

That said, I do appreciate Tesla's software update model, though. But having had a Classic P85, I know how sparse those updates got and quick...

 

[Pandamoanium]

Ugh...

All this is making me one salty owner.

The new times for exact battery sizes is alright, I'm just in that small category where I feel a little unhappy about mine. Oh well, even more reason for me to just get a toy car sooner.

 

[Emmies]

Well color me jealous. I knew it would eventually happen but I isn't think it would be that nice of an upgrade. I bought a 60d in April and upgraded it to 75 when they made the lineup change and cut the price of the upgrade. I was annoyed I didn't get the power liftgate but I did get the SAS which we kind of needed to avoid scratching on our driveway. Shaving a full second off that 0-60 time is sweet though! I definitely don't need my car to be faster than it is but it would've been nice. Oh well.

 

[fiksegts]

indeed, I already did 0-60 in 4.6 in my 100D, so maybe the updated one will do 4.0....

The difference for the 100D Model X is very minor, maybe .1 or .2 seconds faster to 60 mph. It previously got there in 4.7-ish seconds so this isn't a big deal.

Tesla Model X 100D Performance Testing 0-60 MPH and 1/4 Mile

 

[FlatSix911]

Am I the only one curious to know HOW they did this?
Interesting that for 0-60 the motors are now the main limiting factor, apparently.

Possibly an inverter upgrade like the Model 3 ...
Tesla Model 3 exclusive leaked specs: 300kW+ inverter architecture putting its power capacity near Model S

At a power electronic convention when he was working on the Model S powertrain, Straubel said:

“We are increasing the current rating (of the inverter) that’s the most tangible thing you see from a performance point of view. Every time we can push up the current in the inverter a little bit, we are able to get a little bit higher motor torque and that translate into a little bit faster 0 to 60 time, more responsive acceleration and those sort of things.”

The engineer went on to describe how Tesla is using off-the-shelf power electronics for the system:

“The power rating increases are largely enabled by better and better power electronics – transistors or IGBTs which is what we are using. As those improve, we can continue pushing up the current rating and continue increasing performance. If we can make the inverter just half a percent more efficient, that’s half a percent less battery pack that we have to put in the car or half a percent more range that the customer gets to have so it a very strong and virtuous feedback cycle with high efficiency.”

 

[Pandamoanium]

Possibly an inverter upgrade like the Model 3 ...
Tesla Model 3 exclusive leaked specs: 300kW+ inverter architecture putting its power capacity near Model S

At a power electronic convention when he was working on the Model S powertrain, Straubel said:

“We are increasing the current rating (of the inverter) that’s the most tangible thing you see from a performance point of view. Every time we can push up the current in the inverter a little bit, we are able to get a little bit higher motor torque and that translate into a little bit faster 0 to 60 time, more responsive acceleration and those sort of things.”

The engineer went on to describe how Tesla is using off-the-shelf power electronics for the system:

“The power rating increases are largely enabled by better and better power electronics – transistors or IGBTs which is what we are using. As those improve, we can continue pushing up the current rating and continue increasing performance. If we can make the inverter just half a percent more efficient, that’s half a percent less battery pack that we have to put in the car or half a percent more range that the customer gets to have so it a very strong and virtuous feedback cycle with high efficiency.”

That makes the most sense. What if the new 75 vehicles are all software limited 100 packs?

It seems a little strange that the difference between the 75 and 100 isn't that big aside from range... something else is going to happen...

 

[SageBrush]

• Model X 75D: 4.9 seconds down from 6.0 seconds

This works out to a 22.5% increase in average power output for that time trial, all else being equal.
Amazing, and unheard of for a car manufacturer to produce that result with no fanfare, and with an impressive price increase.

If torque is your thing, EVs are front and center

 

[Dutchie]

I don't get that people will be upset with (minor) changes. Yes, the HW1 to HW2 was big but that was a special change due to decision of in house development of HW2.
Tesla is still miles ahead of anything out there. Your car hasn't changed due to a minor change being implemented. If you say that resale value has changed, well you shouldn't have bought the car in the first place. Over the time you keep a car changes will be inevitable and value of your car will decrease no matter what.
You shouldn't compare this to an IPhone which you change every two years with your contract. Just have fun with the car you have!