Though we will lose one of the advanced tech, I think Tesla should ignore UK market (FSD) and focus on their core home market. I think they did the right thing by abandoning RHD Model S/X for UK markets and this should be the next one. I think it is about numbers - how much they have to pay back to the customers who have invested in FSD in UK markets.
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My experience taking Tesla to court about FSD
- Thread starter edb49
- Start date
Billbrown1982
TM3 LR 2021 | Red | FSD
I'm sure there's plenty of times it messes up...I mean it IS a beta but i'd still have fun trying it. That particular video you linked....well the car has to go on the wrong side of the road and I don't think there were any lane markings on it either. Sure there was an oncoming vehicle so big oof but I'd be on high alert in that situation anyway, vs the regular driving part.
Is it though? What manufacturer HAS conformed? The only one that seems to be getting all the press is Ford for Blue Cruise and as someone that works for Ford and has played with the system a lot...its Garbage. Not to mention it only works on pre-mapped routes that to me feels like a cheat and only works until something changes.
Are Tesla at fault for not meeting regulations or are the regulations at fault for being too restrictive? I honestly don't know.
Zilla91
Active Member
What about Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?
Everything on a Tesla is labelled “beta”, it’s a meaningless term that has no legal value.
If it’s truly a beta piece of software then it shouldn’t be generally available for people to use on a daily basis in an uncontrolled environment.
Looks miles better than anything Tesla offers in this country
Some are of the view that Tesla often discusses their hopes, dreams and aspirations about the development of their cars and self driving.
This is a new technology for the World, and they often fall short of their aspirations. They predict what and when they might be able to pull it off, but not unexpectantly, they often fall short.
People that take the predictions from Santa, the Easter Bunny, tooth fairy and Elon are often disappointed.
Tesla is inventing the future as they go about their business.
This is a new technology for the World, and they often fall short of their aspirations. They predict what and when they might be able to pull it off, but not unexpectantly, they often fall short.
People that take the predictions from Santa, the Easter Bunny, tooth fairy and Elon are often disappointed.
Tesla is inventing the future as they go about their business.
Great work. Very admirable holding through.
There is no way people at Tesla UK don't read this forum, so I would expect it to be getting shared around their slack up the chain right now.
So, to everyone at Tesla UK leadership who is reading this tomorrow morning. Happy Monday to you
It's going to be a busy week.
There is no way people at Tesla UK don't read this forum, so I would expect it to be getting shared around their slack up the chain right now.
So, to everyone at Tesla UK leadership who is reading this tomorrow morning. Happy Monday to you
It's going to be a busy week.
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ACarneiro
Active Member
Maybe I’m getting old but in safety-of-life systems such as this I have no problem with rules slowing things down.
“Move fast and break things” makes me uncomfortable in this scenario.
Sean.
Active Member
Pagemakers
Active Member
I bet the “where’s a blame, there’s a claim” solicitors are polishing off their Excel spreadsheets as we speak.
ACarneiro
Active Member
I doubt it.
With no disrespect for OP's had work, which I commend (and I must say I was particularly impressed by your stance on the NDA, which I thoroughly support), this was (to the best of our knowledge) one case. They could have made it a lot harder, but clearly weren't bothered.
I am almost certain that a litany of FSD law suits in the UK would be the sort of press that would make Tesla Corporate pay attention and then I suspect the gloves would be off. Expect protracted legal wrangling, the sort that are out of the financial possibilities of the average human being.
With no disrespect for OP's had work, which I commend (and I must say I was particularly impressed by your stance on the NDA, which I thoroughly support), this was (to the best of our knowledge) one case. They could have made it a lot harder, but clearly weren't bothered.
I am almost certain that a litany of FSD law suits in the UK would be the sort of press that would make Tesla Corporate pay attention and then I suspect the gloves would be off. Expect protracted legal wrangling, the sort that are out of the financial possibilities of the average human being.
That's the beauty of the small claims court track, big companies can't pull that sort of crap.
ACarneiro
Active Member
IANAL, but I don't think there is any sort of legal crap big companies can't pull if they really want it....
No they really can't, and they will find themselves pissing off a judge in a court that has a tendency not to like that sort of crap.
And presumably the whole of Europe, who operate under the same regulations.
It's quite a big market for Tesla.
Billbrown1982
TM3 LR 2021 | Red | FSD
I'd look at it like this
- Telsa overpromised (in writing) and failed to deliver.
- 2016-2020 were more difficult times for Tesla, the money-for-promise helped them demonstrate to the markets that sales were scaling, unit prices were high because of addons, and everything is rosy, please invest!
- Tesla are now well capitalised, and frankly refunding every buyer of those early cars wouldn't make much of a financial impact. Early model 3's (before the website watered down the claims to a point they might stand a chance of being defensible) are few in number, FSD purchases fewer again...
- Legal know that the marketing claims would be extremely hard to defend in court, it's not worth their time or money to try
Hence, put up some barriers - You've got to gather evidence and raise the paperwork for a small claims court motion (Tesla including £500 of costs in the settlement is probably "worth it" for the barriers created)
Then, OK, we'll give you back the "loan" you gave Tesla, please sign this settlement agreement with NDA
What? The guy is willing to decline the settlement and go to court rather than sign the NDA? May as well provide a settlement without an NDA then - we'll lose in court and we can't impose an NDA on a court loss...
As ever, it's an iterative process to get things legally water-tight. The early days of Tesla were very smoke and mirrors to get things off the ground, some later legal settlements are a small price to pay for the results they've seen.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
So, to everyone at Tesla UK leadership who is reading this tomorrow morning. Happy Monday to you
My thinking is that the Legal Eagles had figured this would happen and factored it in from the outset (when they knew they had a problem / indefensible position).
We don't want to go to court, we'll see how long we can run with NDAs, but sooner or later someone will refuse, we will settle, and everyone will be on the bandwagon.
If I wanted to get my money back for FSD, now, I'd write to them saying that I had seen the cat was out of the bag, I'm quite happy with a reasonable offer that doesn't include lawyers and time delays, and I'm quite happy with an NDA. I definitely don't want to be the headline news and journo's telling my story for me!
Mate of mine was investigated by the revenue (with no cause - went on for years, they refused to tell him what they were investigating etc etc. disruption to his private life and mental health was horrendous). He hired an expensive hotshot lawyer, took the revenue to court, and the judge awarded full costs and said that if the revenue ever wanted to investigate him again they had to get a court order first!
Yup, that's how I look at it too. They have had the use of the money and not had to pay any interest along the way.
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ACarneiro
Active Member
This is a very interesting perspective, and one I hadn’t considered. Thank you
We shall see what the next few months bring
The small claims court is setup with private individuals with no legal assistance to bring cases against big companies.
HMRC seem to think they're a law unto themselves. The way they treat minor breaches against the little guy is terrible, been through it many times as part of my job and they are so petty.
Yet the massive breaches by large companies seem to go univestigated.
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