My silky smooth 320 mile road trip with almost 100% AP control

[bmah]

Yes the map does show taking 154 (even though I didn't drive it) but that's because that's what both Google Maps and the on board Nav (which uses google maps) both plotted for the route.

Just to nitpick a bit...the on-board Nav system uses Google Maps to display the map on the CID, but it doesn't use Google Maps' routing algorithms. Not sure if you were aware of that or not.

In any case, thanks for the great, detailed trip report. As a satsfied AP1 owner D), I am happy to see AP2 performing so well.

Bruce.

 

[CameronB]

Just to nitpick a bit...the on-board Nav system uses Google Maps to display the map on the CID, but it doesn't use Google Maps' routing algorithms. Not sure if you were aware of that or not.

I was unclear on this. Interesting. So you are saying for sure that Tesla is doing its complete own routing? I assumed it would basically be calling Google Maps (via API) with a request like Point X to Point Y. Google tells Tesla, here are Route options 1 and 2. Option 1 is 50 miles and looks like this. Option 2 is 60 miles and looks like this. Then Tesla looks at the energy available (plus buffer) and if it's no problem, displays that as your route and no chargers needed. But if it's clear you need a charge then it would figure out which one(s) and basically ask Google to plot a course with those Superchargers as "waypoints". Then it would use the google data for mileage between those waypoints to display estimated Initial SOC estimates at each point. I didn't realize Tesla had its complete own routing system that was not (under the covers) at least partially powered by Google Maps. Thanks for correcting my understanding on this.

 

[azmodls]

I was unclear on this. Interesting. So you are saying for sure that Tesla is doing its complete own routing? ...

Bruce is correct. I usually run google maps/navigation on my phone in addition to the Tesla nav on long trips. There are many times that Tesla Nav choses a less optimal path than Google navigation.

 

[Chopr147]

CameronB Thanks for the great post. I have AP1 and love it on the highway and in traffic. Curvy one lane roads give AP1 a really hard time. I don't bother with those anyway. The AP gives the driver so much confidence it's easy to get complacent. Maybe by the time my lease is up in 2019 I can let the car do all my driving

 

[MarcusMaximus]

I was unclear on this. Interesting. So you are saying for sure that Tesla is doing its complete own routing? I assumed it would basically be calling Google Maps (via API) with a request like Point X to Point Y. Google tells Tesla, here are Route options 1 and 2. Option 1 is 50 miles and looks like this. Option 2 is 60 miles and looks like this. Then Tesla looks at the energy available (plus buffer) and if it's no problem, displays that as your route and no chargers needed. But if it's clear you need a charge then it would figure out which one(s) and basically ask Google to plot a course with those Superchargers as "waypoints". Then it would use the google data for mileage between those waypoints to display estimated Initial SOC estimates at each point. I didn't realize Tesla had its complete own routing system that was not (under the covers) at least partially powered by Google Maps. Thanks for correcting my understanding on this.

To give a good example of this: I did a recent trip to Yosemite. Coming out of the park, leaving from Glacier Point at a nearly full charge, Google Maps and evtripplanner(which, I believe, actually uses Google Maps for its routing) both showed leaving via the west entrance as the optimal path. Tesla's navigation software suggested leaving out through the South entrance through Fish Camp and looping all the way around to the Groveland charger, which would have added ~3 hours or so. I spotted that and ignored it, going into the valley and towards the West entrance.

Unfortunately, I didn't catch that when it updated, it updated to go out through the 140 and loop out SW through Mariposa before coming back up NW on the 49 and back East on the 120 to Groveland, instead of taking the 120 directly West as it showed on Google Maps and EVtripplanner. I was unaccustomed to leaving out the West entrance, so didn't realize it was a mistake until I was already in Mariposa, so this added ~ 1.5 hours to the trip.

I'd strongly suggest that if you do any long road trip where you don't already know the route intimately, you use EV trip planner to map out the route and follow that rather than what comes from Tesla's software.

 

[CameronB]

Very informative post, thanks for chronicling your experience.

Welcome. I'll soon be installing a dashcam so next road trip I'll try to get some video proof of AP handling very curvy downhill roads at 75mph! It was quite thrilling to see, especially since less than 2 months ago, there were a few much more gentle curves on Hwy 280 that AP2 had problems with. It's come a long way (again, at least for me/my car, YMMV) in 2 months, especially for curve handling.

 

[Tangible]

Data please - you have accident statistics to compare with local road accident rates of human drivers?

Oh, please. Do we really have to wait for someone to get hurt before you'll acknowledge what everyone can see? On local roads AP2 lurches across double yellow lines and threatens to plow into oncoming traffic. The standard of comparison shouldn't be human drivers in general; it should be drunks, texters, and six-year-olds sitting in daddy's lap to play driver --- and Tesla AP2 would lose.

 

[CameronB]

What happens when AP "disengages itself"?

With my AP1 X, there are only two types of disengagement I've seen - either I do something to override it, or it gives me red hands and loud beeping (which does happen for reasons other than ignoring hold alerts or max speed, occasionally.)

The force on the wheel for it to decide I'm taking over seems to drop when the car isn't confident, but it's still definitely me steering away from its path.

As I remember it (it's been a week now), I think it disengaged in a similar way to when you apply significant force to the steering wheel - it gives you the double "duh duh" type tone and autosteer turns off (leaving adaptive cruise on). Perhaps it was as you said - maybe it "lost confidence" and my previous light-enough grip on the wheel became enough to turn it off? Perhaps it is a combination of the factors - maybe it "lost confidence" because it thought I should be exiting the freeway (and it doesn't handle off-ramps) and then the GPS was showing that I was continuing straight and hadn't taken manual control to handle the offramp and then my holding on the steering wheel was just enough force to turn it off. I can't be sure though, sorry.

 

[bak_phy]

The nav system definitely needs a serious update! It does so many truly stupid things that I can't ever really trust it. Some of the things it suggests really would cause many hours delay. Once it would even have left me stranded with a dead battery.
An example of it's stupidity happens right out of my driveway. To get to the main road I just need to turn left, drive a few hundred feet and then turn left. Super Easy. The X wants me to turn right, drive 0.5 mile to a roundabout then drive 0.5 miles back towards where I came from but on an adjacent street ending up a few hundred feet from where I started! Insane!

 

[ckessel]

I've had a loader P100D for a couple weeks as my car is in for a battery repair. My old P85 doesn't have AP of course, so I've been trying out the loaner's AP2 when I'm on the freeway. While it's sort of functional and nice on straight stretches, I'd never describe it as silky smooth.

• The logic for speed adjustments seems binary rather than granular. If it has to slow due to traffic in front slowing, it's quite forceful about it. Same for acceleration, it's like "Oh, there's room in front of me! GO! GO! GO!"...."Ack, car, SLOW! SLOW! SLOW!". I'm way, way, way smoother in my application of acceleration/deceleration in the same circumstances.
• AP2 can't seem to handle even gentle curves gracefully. The car seems to suddenly notice it has to adjust and bounces the steering to get back in the middle of the the lane. Rather than a gentle turn, it's a repeated series of bouncy adjustments as it tries to keep centered. It's like a bumper car scraping against an invisible railing. Silky smooth is not how I think of it. I'm more consistent and mellow in adjusting the car back to center.
• It's absolute crap at handling exit lanes. I'm in the right hand lane and every single exit lane it drifts, then realizes it shouldn't take the exit and feels like it's bumping invisible rails again.

On long straight shots, it was nice, but given all I've read here and the hype, I've been massively disappointed. On the bright side, I no longer have any AP envy, so I'm much happier with my old P85

Elon talks about full self driving "really soon" and I'm thinking "Seriously? It barely knows how to handle exit lanes." Not to mention all the incidences posted here where it can't even park or pull out of a garage without scraping. It's certainly convinced me there's no value spending money on AP/FSD for the model 3. Maybe the model Y, we'll see what a few more years brings.

 

[shonline]

@CameronB Thanks for this very useful data and analysis. It seems clear that AP2 has evolved into a competent Adaptive Cruise Control /Lane-Keeping Assistance equipped vehicle, able to perform well for long stretches of highway driving. In this, based on your report, it has now reached parity with the ACC/LKA systems found on other high-end cars for the last several years.

By eschewing industry-standard terminology and grandiously calling these useful and now-common capabilities "Autopilot", and by allowing the system to be used on local streets where its behavior is erratic and dangerous, Tesla has created expectations that cannot be met. I think that's the reason for the different perceptions that you so respectfully referenced. I look forward to someday having a self-driving car that can handle construction zones, off-ramps, children darting out from between parked cars, etc. Tesla and other manufacturers are probably ten years away from that, though Tesla lies about both its current and imminent capabilities. In the meantime, we can enjoy the limited but helpful benefits of what we do have for freeway/highway driving.

Are you an owner?

 

[shonline]

Bruce is correct. I usually run google maps/navigation on my phone in addition to the Tesla nav on long trips. There are many times that Tesla Nav choses a less optimal path than Google navigation.

This is exactly what I do as well. Just completed nearly 3000 miles up 95 and back using both. (second year in a row doing this trip) Almost a necessity to let my iPhone do the routing and let the Tesla catch up. I DO like the range assurance help - so I wish Tesla would let google handle routing as well.

 

[bak_phy]

I DO like the range assurance help - so I wish Tesla would let google handle routing as well.

The range assurance plot is really great and fairly accurate after the first few miles. I just wished that it would make the driver style adjustment initially based on the profile and then adjust rather than EPA or whatever it's doing now.

 

[oktane]

Welcome. I'll soon be installing a dashcam so next road trip I'll try to get some video proof of AP handling very curvy downhill roads at 75mph! It was quite thrilling to see, especially since less than 2 months ago, there were a few much more gentle curves on Hwy 280 that AP2 had problems with. It's come a long way (again, at least for me/my car, YMMV) in 2 months, especially for curve handling.

Downhill works much better than uphill, I think because of how the cameras are aimed. Yes it's better, but still not as "solid" as AP1, and in no way "enhanced" compared to AP1, which is what we were sold almost 1 year ago.

 

[HansT]

I'm just about done with what will be an 1800 mile round trip - LA/Santa Fe. I would estimate that 90+% of the trip was on Autopilot. 100's of miles at a stretch. Was it perfect? No. Did it work. Yes. And only once did it try to kill me - or, more accurately, fail to notice I was about to be killed. However - "silky smooth" it is most definitely NOT. Somewhere between a nervous sixteen-year-old and a drunk three-year-old, depending on the circumstances.

2016 S90D HW2 2017.28 c528869

 

[mcbarnet007]

@CameronB Thanks for this very useful data and analysis. It seems clear that AP2 has evolved into a competent Adaptive Cruise Control /Lane-Keeping Assistance equipped vehicle, able to perform well for long stretches of highway driving. In this, based on your report, it has now reached parity with the ACC/LKA systems found on other high-end cars for the last several years.

Could you please list a production car that can drive itself on a freeway with clear lane markers at 70mph for 50 miles? I couldn't find one other than Tesla last time I looked.

 

[oktane]

I'm just about done with what will be an 1800 mile round trip - LA/Santa Fe. I would estimate that 90+% of the trip was on Autopilot. 100's of miles at a stretch. Was it perfect? No. Did it work. Yes. And only once did it try to kill me - or, more accurately, fail to notice I was about to be killed. However - "silky smooth" it is most definitely NOT. Somewhere between a nervous sixteen-year-old and a drunk three-year-old, depending on the circumstances.

2016 S90D HW2 2017.28 c528869

I think you nailed it with this description. With the latest firmware it does work, but not as well as AP1. I also wouldn't trust many drivers to use it appropriately because there are a lot of "gotchas" which can easily result in injury or death.

 

[Bet TSLA]

... easily result in injury or death

You know, if it really could "easily result in injury or death" then there would be many reports of injuries and deaths. Somehow, there aren't. So my guess is that you're completely wrong. Actually, I'm quite certain of it.

 

[oktane]

You know, if it really could "easily result in injury or death" then there would be many reports of injuries and deaths. Somehow, there aren't. So my guess is that you're completely wrong. Actually, I'm quite certain of it.

Would you bet your life on it?

 

[Bet TSLA]

Would you bet your life on it?

I do, all the time. So does anybody else who turns on auto-pilot. Actually, so does anybody who drives in a Tesla car -- they are all controlled by complex software which only sort of takes input from the so-called driver. Why would you think any different?

And somehow it's good enough that you don't constantly read about deaths and injuries. So, yeah, you continue to be utterly wrong. It's pretty amazingly safe as it is, and it will only get better over time. I guarantee that over the next few years you'll read far more about Tesla auto-pilot preventing injuries and deaths than causing them. So you're even more than wrong.