New Forum Design

[Andyw2100]

I just noticed a welcome change that improves navigation efficiency a bit.

Previously if one was selecting their "Watched Threads" to find threads with unread posts, after finishing a thread you would either have to scroll to the top of the page and select "Watched Threads" again, to have only your watched threads with unread posts appear, or you could use the "back" button in your browser, but doing that would still show the threads that had unread posts that you had read since the last time you actually selected "Watched Threads."

The improvement is now simply clicking your browser's back button eliminates the thread that you just completed reading.

This sounds like a trivial improvement, but it will speed up the way I, and I expect many others use TMC. So thanks to the admins for implementing this change!

 

[Cyclone]

I just noticed a welcome change that improves navigation efficiency a bit.

Previously if one was selecting their "Watched Threads" to find threads with unread posts, after finishing a thread you would either have to scroll to the top of the page and select "Watched Threads" again, to have only your watched threads with unread posts appear, or you could use the "back" button in your browser, but doing that would still show the threads that had unread posts that you had read since the last time you actually selected "Watched Threads."

Sadly, I'm not seeing that with Safari 9.1 on Yosemite. Going back still shows this thread and the other three threads I've already read.

 

[Andyw2100]

Sadly, I'm not seeing that with Safari 9.1 on Yosemite. Going back still shows this thread and the other three threads I've already read.

Hmmm...I'm using Chrome and Windows 7 Professional, for what it's worth.

 

[danny]

Well, this really is a Tesla forum, kill a bunch of functionality, all for the sake of "looks" that don't actually look any better.

We have already made clear our primary reasons for changing platforms. I'm not sure where you get the idea that we did it for "looks" as we could have easily changed the "looks" without changing the platform.

We are doing our best to bring back missing useful functionality of the older platform where possible and feasible. This takes time and care for reasons that some may not be able to appreciate, so we ask that you please be patient.

While we understand that some wish to express disappointment, it can become quite repetitive when its the same thing over and over. On the other hand, specific and thoughtful feedback is helpful and appreciated.

 

[1208]

Look, the old forum was stuck in the 1990's in terms of design etc. Tesla is about the future so makes sense that this forum has been updated.

 

[BertL]

Sadly, I'm not seeing that with Safari 9.1 on Yosemite. Going back still shows this thread and the other three threads I've already read.

Hmmm...I'm using Chrome and Windows 7 Professional, for what it's worth.

AHHH, you guys on old levels of workstation software... We could have a whole discussion about that vs choices on one's MS firmware -- but let's not!

I'm running El Capitan OS X 10.11.4 & Safari 9.1 and as Cyclone reports, no wondrous difference as Andyw2100 is seeing on Windows-based Chrome. I also don't see any difference with Chrome 49.0.2623.87 on El Capitan either.

 

[JRP3]

Look, the old forum was stuck in the 1990's in terms of design etc. Tesla is about the future so makes sense that this forum has been updated.

Except the old design was more functional and looked better, as many people keep pointing out. I expect they'll get this all worked out eventually, and I have no doubt that they did this change because they felt it was needed, but let's not pretend that "new" is automatically better, when in many ways that many people keep bringing up, it's worse.

 

[islandbayy]

Still on Hiatius. Can't get used to this new design. Still hurts eyes, takes forever to navigate around I know I'm not missed... But still Hope ya come up with some good changes soon (Or full reversion back to the old software until the bugs are worked out). Recommendation: Get this stuff fixed QUICK. Once the Model 3 event happens, NEW users will be flocking here. People have short attention spans. With the poor navigation, if people don't find what they are looking for, or feel comfortable within the first 30 seconds to a minute, they are gone.
This should have been at least another 6 months of beta testing and user opinions before going live, at minimum.

 

[JRP3]

Hmmm...I'm using Chrome and Windows 7 Professional, for what it's worth.

Doesn't work for me, Win7 Home and Firefox.

 

[Cyclone]

I'm running El Capitan OS X 10.11.4 & Safari 9.1

If it matters, I upgraded last night to El Capitan. I didn't realize I wasn't on it until I went to check my versions. Downloaded it right after. The other laptop was on it though!

 

[Andyw2100]

I just noticed a welcome change that improves navigation efficiency a bit.

Previously if one was selecting their "Watched Threads" to find threads with unread posts, after finishing a thread you would either have to scroll to the top of the page and select "Watched Threads" again, to have only your watched threads with unread posts appear, or you could use the "back" button in your browser, but doing that would still show the threads that had unread posts that you had read since the last time you actually selected "Watched Threads."

The improvement is now simply clicking your browser's back button eliminates the thread that you just completed reading.

This sounds like a trivial improvement, but it will speed up the way I, and I expect many others use TMC. So thanks to the admins for implementing this change!

Sadly, I'm not seeing that with Safari 9.1 on Yosemite. Going back still shows this thread and the other three threads I've already read.

Hmmm...I'm using Chrome and Windows 7 Professional, for what it's worth.

I'm running El Capitan OS X 10.11.4 & Safari 9.1 and as Cyclone reports, no wondrous difference as Andyw2100 is seeing on Windows-based Chrome. I also don't see any difference with Chrome 49.0.2623.87 on El Capitan either.

Doesn't work for me, Win7 Home and Firefox.

Well, this is truly odd.

The only difference I can think of on my end is that until recently I had never logged onto the new site using my phone. I did that for the first time a day or two before noticing that difference last night. I can't imagine how or why that would make a difference.

Doug or Danny--do either of you have any insight to share? I was singing your praises about a good change I thought you had made, but now it seems others are not seeing the benefits of it.

Thanks!

 

[doug]

If I'm reading that correctly, the difference would depend on your browser behavior and whether clicking back gives you a locally cached version of the page or if it goes to the previous URL and reloads the page. If it reloads the page then the thread you just read would be eliminated from the list.

I suppose you could just click back and then reload if that's something you wanted.

 

[ohmman]

If I'm reading that correctly, the difference would depend on your browser behavior and whether clicking back gives you a locally cached version of the page or if it goes to the previous URL and reloads the page. If it reloads the page then the thread you just read would be eliminated from the list.

I suppose you could just click back and then reload if that's something you wanted.

Yes, it's browser specific. @Andyw2100 must have a browser that isn't loading the last page from cache. I think a more convenient workaround would be to either:

• Put the "Watched Threads" link in the top navigation list "publicTabs" (next to "New Posts", for instance)

or

• Anchor the "Forums" navigation sub bar directly below the "sticky_wrapper" so that we can reach that link from the bottom of a page.

Then, those of us who navigate with Watched Threads can just click that instead of the back button.

For now, my workaround is to have a bookmark in my bookmark/favorites bar in Safari that says TMC. It takes me directly to Watched Threads, so I just click on that instead of my back button, and it loads the list anew each time.

 

[Andyw2100]

If I'm reading that correctly, the difference would depend on your browser behavior and whether clicking back gives you a locally cached version of the page or if it goes to the previous URL and reloads the page. If it reloads the page then the thread you just read would be eliminated from the list.

I suppose you could just click back and then reload if that's something you wanted.

It sounds like you are saying that you didn't make any change on your end. I repeat that I find the change in behavior on my end odd, but pleasing!

I made a short, bad video to demonstrate that this really is happening for me, in the spirit of "pictures or it didn't happen", since no one else seems to be experiencing this. For some reason TMC was a little laggy while I was making the video, but it really never behaves that way, so it could have been due to the recording slowing things down on my computer's end. Because of the lag, the short video is not as short as it otherwise would be.

 

[FlasherZ]

Get this stuff fixed QUICK. Once the Model 3 event happens, NEW users will be flocking here. People have short attention spans. With the poor navigation, if people don't find what they are looking for, or feel comfortable within the first 30 seconds to a minute, they are gone.

Honestly, I was very concerned at first because of the information density and missing functionality. @doug and @danny have done a great job at guiding the necessary functionality into place. I figured out how to work around some other things (e.g., deleting private conversations to clean up your inbox isn't intuitive -- you "leave conversation" a la Facebook and that deletes the thread). Most of the functionality and ability to find things is there, but you have to learn to absorb the change.

New Model 3 users won't care - they'll learn the new forum software without the baggage and burden of multiple years of experience under vB.

From my point of view, there are only a couple of major items that need to be cleaned up, and a minor feature.

My major items:

• The contrast (originally dark gray on light gray) has been fixed (now pure black on white) - but it results in a pure white background, which is hard on the eyes. I understand a "dark" theme is coming, which I will switch to.
• The font used (PT Sans Caption) is a horrible font. I know why @danny / @doug chose it - it combines Latin and Cyrillic character sets for the greatest non-English user reach, but for those with dyslexia or other vision challenges, it's an incredibly frustrating font. In the Latin charsets, it's far too narrow, too thin, and when combined with the white background creates eye strain and fatigue -- although I will say that the Caption variety that TMC uses is much better than the standard (better x-weight and slightly wider). Unfortunately, it is one of the worst font choices for those who are visually impaired. My style sheet changes the body text to Verdana, which is about 5% wider at an equivalent pixel size.
  
• The amount of white space is still insane - information density vs. the old forum is only about 50% of the vB installation (see comparative screenshots here where some CSS work done by me and others have made it readable again for me): Forum stylesheets

Features:

• The UserInfo really needs to get some type of a poster "score" as part of the joined/messages/location information in a post, even if it's just the sum of "positive" items minus the "dislike" items. I know I can see it on their profile page, but I want to see that information as part of each post.

I'm sure I would think of a few others, but these are the major ones that bug me.

 

[danny]

but it results in a pure white background, which is hard on the eyes.

We went with the pure white background to maximize contrast. It may be overkill, so I am considering making it slightly off-white.

The font used (PT Sans) is a horrible font.

We're not at all married to the current font. We'll consider in due time.

The amount of white space is still insane

As I mentioned previously, we are working on both dark and condensed versions of our primary style. This takes time to get setup properly. There are also some updates to the style that we are working on implementing but requires testing.

The UserInfo really needs to get some type of a poster "score"

Yeah, this is coming soon.

 

[FlasherZ]

Thank you. All very welcome to hear.

 

[wk057]

So, I've gotten several messages from people who have assumed that I must have died or something, given my lack of activity here. I've been lurking a little, but it's been about a week since I've actually posted anything... definitely a record. It's one I'm likely going to break, though. Suffice it to say I'm alive and well.

As mentioned before, I applaud @doug and @danny for attempting to modernize the forum, among other things, but I think the transition has been handled very poorly and will, unfortunately, just not be a net positive for the site in general. Captain Hindsight says that this should not have been rushed as it has been, and should probably have stayed in a beta form of some sort for several months while all of the issues were addressed before making a mass changeover. Then, when the full changeover happened the new site should already have been so good from the months of refining that there would be hardly any issue at all from anyone.

But, as it stands, I simply no longer find this site enjoyable to use or to contribute to for a number of reasons. There have been some small improvements since the changeover, but definitely not enough to warrant putting up with the new site. For me, being busted back to crewman (complete loss of previous rep/track record) was enough to justify being done here. I've no interest in starting over when I can't really stand the new design, especially when everything earned prior to the switch that distinguishes the quality posters from the rest is just being thrown away. If that's the attitude of the administration, nothing to say it won't happen again, so what's the point?

Sorry, everyone, but I'm done for now. If things improve significantly, then I'll pop in occasionally, but it doesn't seem like the admins are interested in addressing some core issues I have with this change (not a complete list by any means). Again, not my site, not my calls. So, no hard feelings. I just hope the admins realize that this redesign almost certainly will not be a net positive for the TMC community.

I get email notifications for PMs still, so, I'll keep in touch.

-Jason / wk

 

[Andyw2100]

The UserInfo really needs to get some type of a poster "score"

Yeah, this is coming soon.

For me, being busted back to crewman (complete loss of previous rep/track record) was enough to justify being done here. <SNIP> ...especially when everything earned prior to the switch that distinguishes the quality posters from the rest is just being thrown away.

Here's a suggestion that perhaps Doug and Danny will be amenable to.

There has been a lot of criticism by many posters of the total loss of all the historical data that went into building up our reputation levels under the old system. I realize that Doug had been saying for some time not to get attached to the reputation points system, and that there were many issues with it. I understand that it's not coming back, and that the new system is not going to incorporate the old.

But what if, as a nod to the old system and what it represented, just a simple, static number--our old reputation points received number--was shown alongside whatever it is that is "coming soon" that will appear along side each of our posts? "Reputation Received thru March 13, 2016: 356" (Or simply "Old Reputation: 356", and explain what it means somewhere else.)

The line would only appear for posters who joined before that date, and it would be optional as to whether or not you want to include it with your posts for those who were around before then.

This would at least allow people to see the reputation levels members had achieved, while still allowing the benefits of the new system to be implemented.

In other words, it would be a compromise.

 

[thimel]

The site now leaves me logged in at least overnight. I appreciate this improvement and thank the administrators. As far as I am concerned, the forum is now at least as good as it was.