New Highland UK - stalks

[Mike_M3]

I don't know what you have been driving but every manual car i have had the gear lever and clutch pedal in a fixed position. If reverse and 1st and the clutch and brake swappped positions every time i turned the steering wheel i think i would have struggled.

Obviously they don’t move, but hand and foot co-ordination involved in changing gears, finding clutch biting point, feeding in the accelerator (so 2 feet and 1 hand involved) etc is more difficult than working out what button to press (1 thumb involved) when the steering wheel is turned and the indicator buttons are upside down! It’s literally a 50:50 choice and after doing it 2 times you work out to press the top one (if steering wheel is turned) when wanting to leave a roundabout.

 

[MrT3]

Obviously they don’t move, but hand and foot co-ordination involved in changing gears, finding clutch biting point, feeding in the accelerator (so 2 feet and 1 hand involved) etc is more difficult than working out what button to press (1 thumb involved) when the steering wheel is turned and the indicator buttons are upside down! It’s literally a 50:50 choice and after doing it 2 times you work out to press the top one (if steering wheel is turned) when wanting to leave a roundabout.

I’d agree that mastering a manual transmission is more difficult but once done you don’t need to take you eyes off the road to change gear. Pressing the correct indicator button that could be located anywhere on a 360 degree circumference does - it may only need a split second, and most of the time when driving straight you know where it is but there will be times when you need to look and that compromises safety.

 

[Jules22]

I’d agree that mastering a manual transmission is more difficult but once done you don’t need to take you eyes off the road to change gear. Pressing the correct indicator button that could be located anywhere on a 360 degree circumference does - it may only need a split second, and most of the time when driving straight you know where it is but there will be times when you need to look and that compromises safety.

As was shown in the video posted in this thread, there is zero need to look for the button. That was only after two days of driving the vehicle, it's even easier now.

 

[Jason71]

Obviously they don’t move, but hand and foot co-ordination involved in changing gears, finding clutch biting point, feeding in the accelerator (so 2 feet and 1 hand involved) etc is more difficult than working out what button to press (1 thumb involved) when the steering wheel is turned and the indicator buttons are upside down! It’s literally a 50:50 choice and after doing it 2 times you work out to press the top one (if steering wheel is turned) when wanting to leave a roundabout.

Tell that to a dyslexic. I am in my 50s and if you asked me which is my right hand i would have to think about it. Every single time.
There are a lot of us.
I can manage stalk down= that way. Stalk up = the other way.
But pressing the haptic button that is pointing the oposite of where i want to go. With the 'wrong' hand. While navigating a roundabout is honestly something i dont need.

 

[pdk42]

Whilst I feel pretty much as most people do about the loss of stalks (i.e. that it's a bad and unnecessary move), it's worth pointing out that:

a) Hand signals are still a permissible technique to indicate a direction change.

b) There is no standardisation on drive select and there are lots of implementations of it across brands.

 

[MrT3]

As was shown in the video posted in this thread, there is zero need to look for the button. That was only after two days of driving the vehicle, it's even easier now.

The video showed fairly large roundabouts with the indicator buttons being in quite easy positions to hit. What about two mini roundabouts on top of each other or a staggered junction where you need to turn right and immediately left where the wheel is constantly moving and the indicators may be at 5, 6 or 7 o’clock position when you need it, not a nice convenient 2 or 3 o’clock?

 

[Jules22]

most people do about the loss of stalks (i.e. that it's a bad and unnecessary move)

Thing is that these are almost all people who have never driven the vehicle.

The vast majority of owners have all reported that it was very quick to adapt to and most prefer them after a week or two.

As for the "unnecessary move" I'll defer to Munro and Associates, who would have more credibility than any other in the business to comment on that and if you watch the latest Model 3 or Cybertruck interviews with Sandy Munro you'll see he believes it was long overdue and definitely a necessary move.

 

[Jules22]

The video showed fairly large roundabouts with the indicator buttons being in quite easy positions to hit. What about two mini roundabouts on top of each other or a staggered junction where you need to turn right and immediately left where the wheel is constantly moving and the indicators may be at 5, 6 or 7 o’clock position when you need it, not a nice convenient 2 or 3 o’clock?

I wouldn't call them large by any stetch of the imagination, small-medium. There is a smaller one I go through several times a day where the wheel is at 90 degrees, that is even easier, you can still use your left hand for that one. You just keep your left or right thumb on the buttons as the wheel moves, it honestly couldn't be simpler, as the wheel spins, your right hand grabs that spot, which you can do without looking and the left indicator is a very distinct shape, you know exactly where it is after the first or second drive and can find it every time.

 

[Jason71]

Thing is that these are almost all people who have never driven the vehicle.

The vast majority of owners have all reported that it was very quick to adapt to and most prefer them after a week or two.

As for the "unnecessary move" I'll defer to Munro and Associates, who would have more credibility than any other in the business to comment on that and if you watch the latest Model 3 or Cybertruck interviews with Sandy Munro you'll see he believes it was long overdue and definitely a necessary move.

He lives somewhere with no roundabouts and the cybertruck has steer by wire variable ratio. He is also a fan boi shareholder.

 

[Timmo]

Here's another useful feature lost with stalk. I often drive my '18 M3 on the highway with autosteer activated. I often wish to take control of the steering while leaving the TACC set. This required a quick flick up followed by a quick flick down on the right stalk which is accomplished quickly with hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. Speed is maintained and I have control with no perceptible change felt by the passengers. Easy to accomplish because the stalk never moves from the 3-o'clock position. With the Highland, I have to locate the correct scroll wheel which can be anywhere within 360-degree arc, and start tapping it once, twice, or whatever, hoping I'm not tapping the left scroll wheel. Sure, I can disengage by twisting the wheel but the release of the steering detent requires a bit of force which invariably causes a slight swerve of the vehicle which passengers find alarming. Again, Tesla degraded the usefulness of the vehicle to save a few bucks. I'll never buy another Tesla unless/until the stalk is returned to the cockpit.

 

[Jules22]

He lives somewhere with no roundabouts and the cybertruck has steer by wire variable ratio. He is also a fan boi shareholder.

lol, he's on record hating the Model 3 until he finally tore one down.

The comments on the CT interview were about the model 3, so nothing to do with steer by wire.

He didn't even want to look at the Highland as he didn't think it was much of an upgrade, his wife decided to go buy one and again he was pleasantly surprised at how much of an upgrade it was.

In every case he's come in with a negative attitude and been proven wrong once he actually looked into it (much like the majority of people carrying on about the no-stalks).

He remains one of the most respected names in the industry for a good reason. I've even come across him in the military aviation field where he is also very well respected.

At the end of the day, if you choose not to purchase a vastly superior vehicle because of a feature that you think you don't like, it's no skin off my nose.

I will correct completely false statements though.

 

[Mike_M3]

Here's another useful feature lost with stalk. I often drive my '18 M3 on the highway with autosteer activated. I often wish to take control of the steering while leaving the TACC set. This required a quick flick up followed by a quick flick down on the right stalk which is accomplished quickly with hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. Speed is maintained and I have control with no perceptible change felt by the passengers. Easy to accomplish because the stalk never moves from the 3-o'clock position. With the Highland, I have to locate the correct scroll wheel which can be anywhere within 360-degree arc, and start tapping it once, twice, or whatever, hoping I'm not tapping the left scroll wheel. Sure, I can disengage by twisting the wheel but the release of the steering detent requires a bit of force which invariably causes a slight swerve of the vehicle which passengers find alarming. Again, Tesla degraded the usefulness of the vehicle to save a few bucks. I'll never buy another Tesla unless/until the stalk is returned to the cockpit.

“I have to locate the correct scroll wheel which can be anywhere within 360-degree arc”

The button doesn’t float around…it’s stuck on the same part of the steering wheel, it’s not hard to find and will obviously been on the opposite side of the steering is turned more than 90 degrees.

Also, on the highway how often do you have the steering turned more than 90 degree?

Some of these comments are worrying, how did these people pass their driving tests!

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

5:30 then 6:15 into this video, which I presume are relatively close in real time as they’re following the same car show two situations where a change of indication is needed at an awkward time when the steering wheel is moving, it’s not just a case of hitting a button on a stationary steering wheel

What’s also interesting to me is its following an older car that doesn’t indicate correctly, and at the first of the two examples they’re still indicating right as they leave the roundabout which is sending the wrong signal to the car approaching, if that BMW had been a few seconds further up the road they would have needed to stop just in case. So rubbish indicating is a thing, would they think being stalkless was an issue if they don’t bother anyway in those situations?

It’s back to 95+% it’s not an issue, we can argue how big an issue the remaining 5% is, but the fact we disagree means Tesla has a problem.

 

[Obie]

Excellent video that clearly shows with indicators on the steering wheel in some situations you will miss indicate or not bother indicating at all.
The only way i would buy a Tesla with buttons is if you can get a S3XY indicator stalk.

 

[spdpsba]

Some of these comments are worrying, how did these people pass their driving tests!

Nah, they are ok. They just want a faster .

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Nah, they are ok. They just want a faster .

Well I guess if the alternative is a pogo stick, then I'll stick with the horse

 

[init6]

indicating right as they leave the roundabout which is sending the wrong signal to the car approaching, if that BMW

Irony alert!

 

[DaminGJ]

5:30 then 6:15 into this video, which I presume are relatively close in real time as they’re following the same car show two situations where a change of indication is needed at an awkward time when the steering wheel is moving, it’s not just a case of hitting a button on a stationary steering wheel

What’s also interesting to me is its following an older car that doesn’t indicate correctly, and at the first of the two examples they’re still indicating right as they leave the roundabout which is sending the wrong signal to the car approaching, if that BMW had been a few seconds further up the road they would have needed to stop just in case. So rubbish indicating is a thing, would they think being stalkless was an issue if they don’t bother anyway in those situations?

It’s back to 95+% it’s not an issue, we can argue how big an issue the remaining 5% is, but the fact we disagree means Tesla has a problem.

Nice video. Would be interesting to get a police driver or a IAM drive to asses and give an opinion on the stalkless highland.

 

[spdpsba]

Well I guess if the alternative is a pogo stick, then I'll stick with the horse

Of course, that’s what the horse carriage owners said when they were worried about the change. And another cliche was change for the sake of change isn’t good. We have heard this all the time on this forum. I guess @GeorgeSymonds can see the funny side of this post.

 

[doats1]

Of course, that’s what the horse carriage owners said when they were worried about the change. And another cliche was change for the sake of change isn’t good. We have heard this all the time on this forum. I guess @GeorgeSymonds can see the funny side of this post.
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You are aware the Model 3 is still a car, right?