Whatstreet
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But I have trouble with rental cars anyway.Yes, different from everything else but not better is a disadvantage for those using multiple different vehicles.
It can also be annoying to users of rental cars.
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But I have trouble with rental cars anyway.Yes, different from everything else but not better is a disadvantage for those using multiple different vehicles.
It can also be annoying to users of rental cars.
Just wait until you have a rental car without stalks and requires you to use voice commands to shift!But I have trouble with rental cars anyway.
I agree. See post #577, first time ever seeing someone use the proper phrase. Another pet peeve of mine, using the word annoying when complainng about how something works while not using it properly. People also say wall charger when it's a wall connector. People in the waiting room threads say delivery has been pushed back when it's actually been pushed forward. Some people also say they could care less when they really mean they couldn't care less. Oh well. But I digress, back to the regularly scheduled program.I don’t think they mean the same thing,
Ive done quite a few now, its not a big deal, it’s actually quite easy flicking the little car the other way. Its just different, but so was my ice car and its shifter in the centre console.What about doing something like a K turn.. any feeling about how that works/feels and responsiveness or reliability? Using the screen controls?
Its not a direct connection, they use a “commander” unit which you use an adapter to splice into the canbus. If that little unit fails, or starts issuing random commands it wouldnt be ideal.True. I thought about that too but this looks pretty instant. (Can see the blinkers activate quickly.). Maybe they do have a direct connection.
Even if not a direct connection, I’m hoping the failure rate is low enough to basically not matter.
I drive multiple ice cars every day. Some have stalks on the wrong side (merc) some have shifters on the centre console, some are manual, some have shifters on the dash, and my highland has none haha.^^ @JuanF1 do you drive another vehicle regularly, or is the M3 your only car?
Thanks. It still wouldn’t deter me if I wanted the stalks.Its not a direct connection, they use a “commander” unit which you use an adapter to splice into the canbus. If that little unit fails, or starts issuing random commands it wouldnt be ideal.
Absolutely, its not for everyoneThanks. It still wouldn’t deter me if I wanted the stalks.
I drove 18 years with stalks, the M3 is since last week my new and only car^^ @JuanF1 do you drive another vehicle regularly, or is the M3 your only car?
Sure there is: cost savings and fewer mechanical parts. Fewer mechanical parts means fewer things that can break (and need to be repaired).The thing is, there is no valid reason to remove the stalks.
You parrot Elon quite well.Sure there is: cost savings and fewer mechanical parts. Fewer mechanical parts means fewer things that can break (and need to be repaired).
Things evolve and will continue to evolve. Not everything will be a hit, but so far, IN THIS THREAD, the vast majority of complainers are people who haven't driven stalkless. And the majority of people who have said it's simple and quick to get used to.
ThisYou parrot Elon quite well.
1. Do you see the savings from removing the stalks? (Hint: the answer is ‘no.’)
2. When was the last time you had a turn signal stalk go bad? In all of the cars I’ve driven in the last 40 years it’s happened exactly 0 time. I asked my parents - in all the cars they’ve driven over 70 years the answer was 0. The failure rate for these is vanishingly small meaning any possible benefit is also vanishingly small.
(I’d also point out that removing the stalk simply moves the switches from the stalk to the wheel so there are still switches to break, just in a different position)
So in the end, net benefit to the consumer? $0.00
Well, I don't listen to Elon, so I am certainly not "parroting" him - just using basic logic.You parrot Elon quite well.
1. Do you see the savings from removing the stalks? (Hint: the answer is ‘no.’)
2. When was the last time you had a turn signal stalk go bad? In all of the cars I’ve driven in the last 40 years it’s happened exactly 0 time. I asked my parents - in all the cars they’ve driven over 70 years the answer was 0. The failure rate for these is vanishingly small meaning any possible benefit is also vanishingly small.
(I’d also point out that removing the stalk simply moves the switches from the stalk to the wheel so there are still switches to break, just in a different position)
So in the end, net benefit to the consumer? $0.00
1. Do you see the savings from removing the stalks? (Hint: the answer is ‘no.’)
2. When was the last time you had a turn signal stalk go bad? In all of the cars I’ve driven in the last 40 years it’s happened exactly 0 time.
Ok, so you admit that reliability is not a notable benefit.Well, I don't listen to Elon, so I am certainly not "parroting" him - just using basic logic.
I'm glad you have done your exhaustive research to support the "turn signal stalks never go bad" theory. They are a moving part and they are susceptible to breakage. Is the likelihood high? Not really. But it is there.
And you're a fool if you think cost savings are not passed on to the customer. No, they aren't knocking $100 off the sticker price because of this: it contributes a cumulative overall cost reduction. A couple of bucks here and another couple there, and pretty soon this adds up to significant savings in manufacturing, which keeps the cost of the car down - it is basic manufacturing principles.
I had a stalk actually break off and hang from the wiring on an older Ford Taurus. Mechanic said it was a Chinese made, after market replacement part and replaced it with a Ford part that was made in Mexico.When was the last time you had a turn signal stalk go bad? In all of the cars I’ve driven in the last 40 years it’s happened exactly 0 time. I asked my parents - in all the cars they’ve driven over 70 years the answer was 0. The failure rate for these is vanishingly small
Having to learn and get used to a whole new way of operating car just to save a few bucks on mechanical stalks. It doesn't sound worth it. I'm sure you could eventually get used to two joysticks instead of steering wheel plus pedals - even cheaper to produce, and it would even give you new abilities like 0 turning radius (tank style turns), but who would want to. Tesla stopped doing weekend test drives so one could have 3 days to get used to the typical usecase, and stopped offering money-back-guarantee so customers who don't get used to it in 7 days could return the car no questions asked. This means Tesla will lose customers with their cost saving on controls. My wife really wanted another Tesla (she had 2 Model S'es up to that point), but one test drive in a Model X with the yoke made her change her mind. I didn't buy (or lease) a Plaid too primarily because of the stalkless yoke, though at that time Tesla was not offering test drives at all, so Elon only wanted customers with blind faith that he knows better - so obviously not me (I also had 2 Model S'es like my wife, and also switched brands after the yoke). Maybe if Tesla gave us the cars for 3 days, or offered 7 day money back guarantee, things would have turned out differently, but then again, such extended test drives must cost more than the cost of the mechanical stalk.I'm driving now for a bit more than 1 week with my new M3, and honestly, I do not miss the stalks at all !
The first day, you are aware of being stalkless, so you pay extra attention to learn using them. The second day was maybe the worst, you tend to slip back to an old habit as you just aren't as attentive as the first day. But as of the 3rd day, it has become a habit of using the buttons and honestly, the driving experience is as good as before with stalks.
Side note: for roundabouts, the time to get used to stalkless driving will take much more time, but again, I believe it will just be a matter of time to build in the habit to know exactly where the button will be.
There was a Model Y with a glass roof that flew off on the drive from the delivery to the customers home. Unlikely things happen, this doesn't mean Model Y roofs are unreliable and fly off often.I had a stalk actually break off and hang from the wiring on an older Ford Taurus. Mechanic said it was a Chinese made, after market replacement part and replaced it with a Ford part that was made in Mexico.
But then Tesla could say it’s like a fighter jet! Or like your old Atari 2600…It doesn't sound worth it. I'm sure you could eventually get used to two joysticks instead of steering wheel plus pedals - even cheaper to produce, and it would even give you new abilities like 0 turning radius (tank style turns), but who would want to.
This, 100%Having to learn and get used to a whole new way of operating car just to save a few bucks on mechanical stalks. Tesla stopped doing weekend test drives so one could have 3 days to get used to the typical usecase, and stopped offering money-back-guarantee so customers who don't get used to it in 7 days could return the car no questions asked. This means Tesla will lose customers with their cost saving on controls. My wife really wanted another Tesla (she had 2 Model S'es up to that point), but one test drive in a Model X with the yoke made her change her mind. I didn't buy (or lease) a Plaid too primarily because of the stalkless yoke, though at that time Tesla was not offering test drives at all, so Elon only wanted customers with blind faith that he knows better - so obviously not me (I also had 2 Model S'es like my wife, and also switched brands after the yoke). Maybe if Tesla gave us the cars for 3 days, or offered 7 day money back guarantee, things would have turned out differently, but then again, such extended test drives must cost more than the cost of the mechanical stalk.
Except Tesla had been doing the opposite, they have done massive price cuts to the great complaint of existing owners (plenty of threads here). This is made possible by moves like this that reduce costs. A lot existing owners would rather they keep the car the same price or set the price higher and higher, but that's not what's happening.Ok, so you admit that reliability is not a notable benefit.
You're a fool if you really expect to see anything from these. What happens is the manufacturers whittle things down, saving a few cent here and there, eventually saving $100 per car. Then then keep the price the same (because nobody cares whether the car is $49,999 or $49,899. Instead they pocket the difference and pay it in bonuses to the executives who instructed the engineers to cut the parts. (oh, and don't forget the development costs to get rid of the parts.) This is basic business principles.