NEW Model 3 Highland review!

[sleepydoc]

Half the people I see already do not use turn signals, Tesla or not. I just wonder what kids are being taught in driver Ed.

Hands at 9 & 3 instead of 10 & 2, because it’s truly life and death. /s

 

[Kevy Baby]

Not tons of benefit to not signaling.

Sure there is: often I don't signal when changing lanes because if I do, the A-hole I am moving in front of will speed up to cut me off.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Sure there is: often I don't signal when changing lanes because if I do, the A-hole I am moving in front of will speed up to cut me off.

I think I understand the opinions here then. I can see why some people think it is very uncommon. In my brief observations yesterday I saw compliance to be very high! Will keep looking though!

 

[Max_Shanghai]

Hey I love my 22’ M3LR/boost! (Hw3 and USS and already 576km range..not the reduced).

I run 20” v1 rims/tires, black tint, gun metal decals, carbon fibre interior trim. To me handling is incredible as is the power
I have no inclination to upgrade to the new highland until I’ve driven this baby for 150k or 4-5 yrs

I’m sure the new revised specs are an improvement and I look forward to testing one out regardless. Now if they introduce a Perf with ludicrous…hmmm…maybe something to consider.

View attachment 970088

Looks super nice. Stock springs or lowered?

 

[ChooseFreedom]

It Depends on whether the stalkless 'features' (such as they are) are available with both versions. The yoke has the nominal advantage that it doesn't block the screen but there is no clear advantage to the stalkless design that I can discern and there's the potential disadvantage that it may harm resale value. (There's no one that will decide not to buy a car that has stalks but there are plenty of people who would decide not to buy a car that doesn't have stalks.)

Given the choice I would bet most (80-90%+) people would opt for the stalks.

Whether we like it or not, it's a forced "innovation" that they're pushing to get people used to it for future applications, i.e. robo taxi and such. At some point they'll be able to recede the wheel/yoke back into the dash when using FSD. Stalks have to go away for that option.
And it takes a looooong time to get the public comfortable with any changes to anything they consider a "standard" offering.
Seatbelts used to be optional, so was auto transmission, just to name a couple of examples.
Neither of which were "popular" when they were initially released. Progress takes time. Change happens one funeral at a time.

There are forward thinkers, and there's the rest of us.
They push society forward toward innovations, regardless of critics trying to hold on to the current "norms".

I've said it before. If we all had grown up learning how to drive in stalkless vehicles, there would be no controversy.
All the kids of new stalkless Tesla owners aren't going to have a problem with it when they start driving. In fact, their first time in a stalked vehicle will be odd to them. But they'll adjust the same way many older drivers have when they bought their first Tesla recently.

The argument about intuitiveness of stalks vs stalkless is irrelevant. Until the NHTSA comes out saying stalkless is dangerous, it's a moot point. Tesla is moving forward (or backward depending on your opinion) with their plans.
I don't understand people who get onboard with a progressive company like Tesla, buy their products, and then complain when that company progresses their products. Too many people stuck in the ICE mentality. Adapt or die. It's true in nature, true in society, and also true in business.

 

[Destiny1701]

Seatbelts used to be optional, so was auto transmission, just to name a couple of examples.
Neither of which were "popular" when they were initially released

The examples above actually were progress. Auto over manual allows one to multitask while driving and results in smoother shifts, comfort and less transmission damage.

Seatbelts ..well …proven safety. No one can discount this ever.

The issue many seem to wonder is whether the yoke /stalkless are in fact ‘better’.
Example..what if yokes were the standard for decades and all of a sudden a wheel came out? Functionally superior, easier to control, easier grip, better control in emergency situations…list goes on.
Instead of all the negativity, I’d be willing to wager the wheel would be touted as a genius move.

Stalks I guess it’s again a matter of functionality. Going from a single move function (flick up or down while holding the wheel) to a dual function swipe with a diff hand while holding the wheel…is this progress? It’s cool, sexy and new. But reverse it again. If it were always stalkless and stalks were introduced to make a 2 function process into 1…I bet you way less pushback. Nothing to do with dangerous or not. Just whether it’s necessary.

I agree progress takes time to adapt to. Somethings are simply not progress as opposed to backward.

Once full FSD, sure makes total sense to have no stalks or a retractable yoke. For now, it’s taking away simplicity for ?

For all those who love stalkless and yoke …hey enjoy it

 

[3sr+buyer]

I've said it before. If we all had grown up learning how to drive in stalkless vehicles, there would be no controversy.

However, being different but not better is not an advantage, as opposed to being different because it is better. Turn signals by steering wheel buttons instead of a stalk is an example of the former, not the latter.

 

[ChooseFreedom]

The examples above actually were progress. Auto over manual allows one to multitask while driving and results in smoother shifts, comfort and less transmission damage.

Seatbelts ..well …proven safety. No one can discount this ever.

The issue many seem to wonder is whether the yoke /stalkless are in fact ‘better’.
Example..what if yokes were the standard for decades and all of a sudden a wheel came out? Functionally superior, easier to control, easier grip, better control in emergency situations…list goes on.
Instead of all the negativity, I’d be willing to wager the wheel would be touted as a genius move.

Stalks I guess it’s again a matter of functionality. Going from a single move function (flick up or down while holding the wheel) to a dual function swipe with a diff hand while holding the wheel…is this progress? It’s cool, sexy and new. But reverse it again. If it were always stalkless and stalks were introduced to make a 2 function process into 1…I bet you way less pushback. Nothing to do with dangerous or not. Just whether it’s necessary.

I agree progress takes time to adapt to. Somethings are simply not progress as opposed to backward.

Once full FSD, sure makes total sense to have no stalks or a retractable yoke. For now, it’s taking away simplicity for ?

For all those who love stalkless and yoke …hey enjoy it

I'm not here as a promoter of stalkless. I don't own one, haven't driven one myself.
I'm being more of a devil's advocate than anything else.

Auto trans: Has it's positives and negatives. Worse gas mileage, much added weight and an entire additional system that needs maintenance. Some would say being able to multitask while driving is not a good thing.
Seatbelts: Agreed, safety add, even if some people are dumb enough to not to use it.

Functionality: How is taking your hand off the wheel, or at the very least, losing grip with the wheel, to move your hand to the stalk and push it, better than simply taking your thumb and pushing a turn signal button? Sure, right now, apparently people have a fit about using them in roundabouts. I drive a roundabout every day and I don't see the issue. 1) what percentage of your driving is in roundabouts? 2) what percentage of other drivers actually use their signal in roundabouts? 3) Steer-by-wire will make it a non-issue soon enough.

I know you mentioned the gear selector on the screen: Again, the car chooses for you most of the time, and for the times it doesn't, you're not moving, so what's an extra half second? Seriously, the biggest gripe I hear about that is during 3-point turns. Really? How many 3-pt turns have you done in your lifetime? After the one we do during our DL road test, I can count the times I've done them on one hand.

It's not about function. If it were, there would be more problems.
It's about competence and comfort level. People don't like change.
Even if stalks vs stalkless is a wash, not better, not worse, people would still b!tch about it simply because it's new and different from what they're used to.

Steering wheels were round because there was no power steering assistance, so you had to actually use force and effort to turn. And they were much larger for a long time because that extra circumference added leverage that was needed.
A yolk would not have been possible. Plus a circle was cheaper to manufacture.

So other innovations allow for progress in adjacent areas.
Stalkless was not even possible pre-computer or advanced electronics.
Seatbelts weren't mandatory before higher powered engines, and lighter building materials.
And now auto transmissions allow every idiot on the road to be looking at their phones. So hey, no innovation is 100% for the better. But it's progress.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Functionality: How is taking your hand off the wheel, or at the very least, losing grip with the wheel, to move your hand to the stalk and push it, better than simply taking your thumb and pushing a turn signal button?

The turn signal stalk is close enough to the steering wheel that it can be activated by a finger motion with one's hand on the steering wheel.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

A yolk would not have been possible

Definitely not without the !

 

[nate704]

I bet a lot of people complaining about the turn signal button actually do not use turn signal at all. LOL
People always complain no matter what.

 

[EatsShoots]

The examples above actually were progress. Auto over manual allows one to multitask while driving and results in smoother shifts, comfort and less transmission damage.

Seatbelts ..well …proven safety. No one can discount this ever.

The issue many seem to wonder is whether the yoke /stalkless are in fact ‘better’.
Example..what if yokes were the standard for decades and all of a sudden a wheel came out? Functionally superior, easier to control, easier grip, better control in emergency situations…list goes on.
Instead of all the negativity, I’d be willing to wager the wheel would be touted as a genius move.

Stalks I guess it’s again a matter of functionality. Going from a single move function (flick up or down while holding the wheel) to a dual function swipe with a diff hand while holding the wheel…is this progress? It’s cool, sexy and new. But reverse it again. If it were always stalkless and stalks were introduced to make a 2 function process into 1…I bet you way less pushback. Nothing to do with dangerous or not. Just whether it’s necessary.

I agree progress takes time to adapt to. Somethings are simply not progress as opposed to backward.

Once full FSD, sure makes total sense to have no stalks or a retractable yoke. For now, it’s taking away simplicity for ?

For all those who love stalkless and yoke …hey enjoy it

Just because something is new doesn't mean it's not stupid....e.g. this on hyundai's new santa fe.

 

[EatsShoots]

How is taking your hand off the wheel, or at the very least, losing grip with the wheel, to move your hand to the stalk and push it, better than simply taking your thumb and pushing a turn signal button?

Here's a simple example. Remember all the different cars you've gotten into and couldn't immediately figure out what turns on the headlights, or which button(s) or levers are used to run the wipers? I sure can.

Now, remember all the times you have been in different vehicles and didn't know exactly how to indicate a turn?

I'm actually profoundly lazy when I drive, always driving with one hand. So I could probably tolerate these buttons more than most, but I'm left wondering why or how this is progress...

 

[Dear_OP]

I remember BMW drivers amongst all things were known to not signal much to the ire of other drivers. I guess Tesla is habituating its drivers to be more like Bimmer drivers.

 

[Destiny1701]

Here's a simple example. Remember all the different cars you've gotten into and couldn't immediately figure out what turns on the headlights, or which button(s) or levers are used to run the wipers? I sure can.

Now, remember all the times you have been in different vehicles and didn't know exactly how to indicate a turn?

I'm actually profoundly lazy when I drive, always driving with one hand. So I could probably tolerate these buttons more than most, but I'm left wondering why or how this is progress...

Agreed. And how is it diff pushing buttons? Well for one the wheel moves and the turn signals move with it lol.

 

[fasteddie7]

I bet a lot of people complaining about the turn signal button actually do not use turn signal at all. LOL
People always complain no matter what.

A lot of people commenting and complaining about it also never drove a Tesla or Ferrari or any other number of vehicles without traditional stalks. The number of comments I got with people saying how bad it is while never experiencing anything like it are astounding. I personally think it with better for me. My rural backroads of western Pennsylvania have a ton of bear left and right that traditional turn signals would stay on since the wheel didn’t turn enough to trigger the signal to turn off, and I would have to manually disengage or unknowingly leave the signal on for miles confusing other drivers unsure of my intentions.

 

[enemji]

Whether we like it or not, it's a forced "innovation" that they're pushing to get people used to it for future applications, i.e. robo taxi and such

Yup!

 

[chinney]

[…]
Auto trans: Has it's positives and negatives. Worse gas mileage, much added weight and an entire additional system that needs maintenance. Some would say being able to multitask while driving is not a good thing.
[…]

This is a quick aside about an issue ultimately not relevant to a Tesla debate, but what you say about auto transmission was true for most of the history of that form of transmission, but is no longer accurate. My understanding is that modern auto transmissions have minimized energy loss and perfected gear selection relative to driving needs in any given situation so that they are more efficient for ICE vehicles than any person now can achieve with a manual transmission. Of course, what is even better is EV technology where multiple forward gear selection is not even needed.

 

[sleepydoc]

I'm not here as a promoter of stalkless. I don't own one, haven't driven one myself.
I'm being more of a devil's advocate than anything else.

Auto trans: Has it's positives and negatives. Worse gas mileage, much added weight and an entire additional system that needs maintenance. Some would say being able to multitask while driving is not a good thing.
Seatbelts: Agreed, safety add, even if some people are dumb enough to not to use it.

Functionality: How is taking your hand off the wheel, or at the very least, losing grip with the wheel, to move your hand to the stalk and push it, better than simply taking your thumb and pushing a turn signal button? Sure, right now, apparently people have a fit about using them in roundabouts. I drive a roundabout every day and I don't see the issue. 1) what percentage of your driving is in roundabouts? 2) what percentage of other drivers actually use their signal in roundabouts? 3) Steer-by-wire will make it a non-issue soon enough.

I know you mentioned the gear selector on the screen: Again, the car chooses for you most of the time, and for the times it doesn't, you're not moving, so what's an extra half second? Seriously, the biggest gripe I hear about that is during 3-point turns. Really? How many 3-pt turns have you done in your lifetime? After the one we do during our DL road test, I can count the times I've done them on one hand.

It's not about function. If it were, there would be more problems.
It's about competence and comfort level. People don't like change.
Even if stalks vs stalkless is a wash, not better, not worse, people would still b!tch about it simply because it's new and different from what they're used to.

Steering wheels were round because there was no power steering assistance, so you had to actually use force and effort to turn. And they were much larger for a long time because that extra circumference added leverage that was needed.
A yolk would not have been possible. Plus a circle was cheaper to manufacture.

So other innovations allow for progress in adjacent areas.
Stalkless was not even possible pre-computer or advanced electronics.
Seatbelts weren't mandatory before higher powered engines, and lighter building materials.
And now auto transmissions allow every idiot on the road to be looking at their phones. So hey, no innovation is 100% for the better. But it's progress.

If you’re going to be a devil’s advocate you need to have solid arguments!

As someone mentioned, automatic transmissions were easier to learn and easier to drive. Newer transmissions are actually more efficient than manuals so that issue is negated as well.

Yokes have been feasible in cars since the advent of power steering (a couple cars have even included them) yet they never became common. I wonder why? Maybe it’s because they’re inferior (despite being a ‘new innovation’)

Buttons for turn signals have also been feasible for at least the last 50 years. Do you really think no one ever thought of it? Contrary to your (attempted) argument, you don’t need to take your hand off the wheel to activate a turn signal. That’s the beauty of the stalk. With buttons they’re only at your thumbs if your hands are are over the buttons. If the wheel is turned you’re SOL. No matter where the wheel is I can hit the stalk without looking or searching. That can’t be said for the buttons.

There is no case in which buttons are superior to stalks except perhaps manufacturing cost. There may be a few cases in which the deficits can be minimized or even negated but that brings us back to the quesiton of ‘why?’ We have a design that just works. I really don’t feel like making compromizes so Uncle Elon can make a few more cents per car.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Note that stalkless yoke steering is not new. From A Look At A 1950s Messerschmitt KR200's Steering Yoke, Which Is Cooler Than Tesla's - The Autopian