New renderings of storage space and 2nd row seats! (9/15)

[dirkhh]

I think this post sums it up the best. There is no right or wrong answer here, only a matter of perspective.
[...]
I for one, can't wait to see them and see if I can make the production Model-X work for my needs. tick tock, tick tock.

Yes!
It's all about perspective. And accepting that some people may have a different perspective from yours (as in you, who is reading and commenting, not you, vandacca).
I am certain that the Sig Model X will be perfect for some buyers, fulfill every one of their dreams, as if custom made just for them.
From the speculations we have so far (thanks to Tesla, we don't really know a lot, and the few things we know we argue about) it looks like that might not be the case for me, but so be it.
I can't wait to learn more. I still have my reservation, frustrations and disappointments and all. And hopefully there will be so many amazing surprises at the launch (whenever that may be) that I will say "heck, who needs flat cargo space, I want that car!!!"

Edited to add: err, I mean, that my wife will say "I want this car!!!" -- oops, got carried away there...

 

[Yggdrasill]

Except for those people who've complained about them.

Has anyone complained about the rear seats of the Model S? Yeah, okay, thinking back, I can recall some complaints about little side support, little head room and non-adjustable headrests. The middle one is resolved on the Model X, the last one is unchanged, and the first one is probably improved.

Personally, I can't recall ever sitting in the back seat of a car were I've gone "hmm, these seats are uncomfortable", except when there hasn't been enough room for everyones shoulders. I can't see how this issue is anywhere near the top of the list.

 

[ZachShahan]

I think this post sums it up the best. There is no right or wrong answer here, only a matter of perspective. Also, there are many shades of gray from really bad folding seats to pretty good folding seats. The pretty good folding seats might be good enough for 90+% of buyers and would have probably been the safe bet for Tesla to implement.

But because (as mentioned earlier by @Krugerrand, which I totally agree), Tesla got a lot of flak for their seats early on and now are out to prove themselves that they can have the best possible seats out there, bar none. So, they designed these amazing seats that are probably better than anything out there, but maybe they went too far and made too many compromises in that process.

I for one, can't wait to see them and see if I can make the production Model-X work for my needs. tick tock, tick tock.

It's a lesson for Tesla customers -- be careful what you complain about.

Seriously, though, we've seen Elon respond in such a way several times. If someone says something isn't good enough, and he agrees, he goes and tries to make it rocket-ship good. Pluses and minuses there.

- - - Updated - - -

People have a right to cancel if they want, but I bet most who cancel will wish they hadn't when the final vehicle is shown.

I agree. And I genuinely feel bad for anyone who gets themselves so worked up by one or two issues that they decide to cancel and later determine they made a mistake.

Just to be clear again: I understand some people are counting on certain features and consider them to be requirements (that may be completely logical for them), but I think it would suck to miss out on getting this vehicle if you appreciate its amazing features and settle for some other large vehicle instead. I think it's safe to say that getting or sticking with any other vehicle on the market requires making huge sacrifices, "settling," and "compromising" when compared to the X. And I imagine that's why a few reservation holders here are really upset.

 

[BerTX]

I don't buy the reasoning that they just wanted to make the seats more comfortable. A more comfortable seat HAS to recline, and these do not appear to do so in the renderings.

 

[beths11]

Perhaps the seats on the MX will happen in the reverse order they did for the MS. MS started with thin seats and the second row folds. The later upgrade allowed for "cushier" front seats. Hopefully, the MX will start with "cushy" seats all around and later allow for a downgrade to thinner folding seats. Personally, I move more stuff than people. I have been planning to replace my '98' Odyssey with 185,000 miles with the MX. I would never pay $80-90,000 for a luxury ICE, but for electric car technology, definitely. It seems like an option for a folding(or removable) second row would satisfy most everyone. Yes, an expensive delivery van, but it's what I want. I'm counting on Tesla to make it happen.

 

[ohmman]

And I genuinely feel bad for anyone who gets themselves so worked up by one or two issues that they decide to cancel and later determine they made a mistake.

Feeling sorry for someone seems a bit much. If someone cancels, and changes their mind after reconsideration, they can still buy the vehicle. It's just time, and the later vehicles are sure to have newer features in them (just like the MS continues to improve). So the only thing a cancellation with reconsideration means, really, is a delay with the upside of potential new features.

 

[Merrill]

I don't buy the reasoning that they just wanted to make the seats more comfortable. A more comfortable seat HAS to recline, and these do not appear to do so in the renderings.

My ML 430 SUV has rear seats that drop down to the floor and fold down and they are very thick and comfortable, even with a drive shaft down the middle of the car.

 

[AnOutsider]

I don't buy the reasoning that they just wanted to make the seats more comfortable. A more comfortable seat HAS to recline, and these do not appear to do so in the renderings.

The seats tilt forward to allow more rear space. Perhaps they also tilt backward?

 

[ZachShahan]

Feeling sorry for someone seems a bit much. If someone cancels, and changes their mind after reconsideration, they can still buy the vehicle. It's just time, and the later vehicles are sure to have newer features in them (just like the MS continues to improve). So the only thing a cancellation with reconsideration means, really, is a delay with the upside of potential new features.

Maybe. I imagine many people would stick with their other choices for a while due to being locked into a lease, not wanting to suffer the depreciation on a new vehicle, just out of inertia or not wanting to change cars so quickly for a variety of other reasons, and that they'd be disappointed they passed on the X for at least a few years of their life. I agree it's a bit much to feel sorry for people with 1% "first world" problems (or .1% first world problems) like this, but I illogically care a bit too much about the emotional difficulties of others. And I guess it is just hard for me to imagine anyone who cancels not getting hit with non-buyer's remorse with this vehicle. As someone else has said his TM rep told him, we're in for some big surprises. If that's true, and assuming they are strongly positive surprises, I can see people feeling pretty crappy after canceling a reservation they've held with excitement for years and then a couple weeks or month later coming to the conclusion that they made a big mistake.

But yes, there are worse problems in the world to feel empathetic about... I don't need to list them....

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The seats tilt forward to allow more rear space. Perhaps they also tilt backward?

I would expect they will. But that is not reclining in the traditional sense as the seat base reclines with the back. Prior to Model S my rear seats reclined like business class seats on a plane, though not to a flat end quite of course.

We shall see how it works in due course of course. I recommend anyone with a decision to wait September 29th at least.

Where all this dramatic talk of cancelling comes from I don't know. Maybe from some George W. Bush school of with or against us. There are shades of grey in the middle.

I'm cancelling nothing. But as usual I'm doing what I feel is right to understand the info (and lack of) we are getting and making judgement calls based on that if need be. I trust nobody blindly, least of all Tesla.

Only Eds.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

A more comfortable seat HAS to recline, and these do not appear to do so in the renderings.

Thank you +111 for using "appear to" and acknowledging that what we see are renderings.
Renderings are not the Reveal. I hear the reveal is on the 29th.

The renderings are to help customers select colors and such trim options.
(The renderings also show a closed, transparent Falcon-wing right rear door. How come no one is stressing out about one door being transparent? Why is there not a poll about reactions to the transparent door?
Because it's apparent it is a rendering.)

Let me say this, and I will go back to "popcorn mode" until the twenty-tenth...
I still expect a queen mattress to be able to be carried in the X somehow. This includes the possibility of tilting it but that would still fit a real-world need for many in the CUV/SUV market target audience focus population.

I don't put faith in what Sales says, having heard things from them like:
"That's your CHAdeMO adapter" (indicating the J1772 snap-on, this was in 2013)
"While Supercharging, you'll get a code to open the lounge via your Phone App" (Me: "but the Cincinatti SC puts the code on the in-car Nav." Sales: "Oh maybe that's the way it works - I was just guessing.")

Having heard these and others personally, I just have to smile at the conclusions that are leapt to, here, about a yet-to-be-revealed X, that are based on 2 things: Design Studio leather-nonleather-color-choice-aid renderings and statements from Sales.

I pledge $50 to the Purrfect Pals no-kill animal shelter (or equivalent value from their Amazon wish list) if the actual Model X will not carry a 60" x 80" mattress-like object, inside, with the rear gate closed. SIGs included! I probably will even if it does, it's a worthy shelter...

Rick
non figmenti carborundum!

 

[NigelM]

IWhere all this dramatic talk of cancelling comes from I don't know. Maybe from some George W. Bush school of with or against us. There are shades of grey in the middle.

Not sure where you're seeing "dramatic talk of canceling" but even if people cancel because they don't see the car meeting their specific needs don't you think that's their own business and shouldn't deserve political aspersions?

 

[CarlK]

I agree. And I genuinely feel bad for anyone who gets themselves so worked up by one or two issues that they decide to cancel and later determine they made a mistake.

Just to be clear again: I understand some people are counting on certain features and consider them to be requirements (that may be completely logical for them), but I think it would suck to miss out on getting this vehicle if you appreciate its amazing features and settle for some other large vehicle instead. I think it's safe to say that getting or sticking with any other vehicle on the market requires making huge sacrifices, "settling," and "compromising" when compared to the X. And I imagine that's why a few reservation holders here are really upset.

Agreed. I might also add that the one or two issues that got some so worked up might not be issues at all. Some people are so fixated on the matter of fact must have seat that could fold flat need to think outside the box like Tesla always do. There could always be unconventional but better way of doing things. That's how Tesla function and reason why they could produce those great products. Remember the so much hated flat center floor in the MS? It turned out many people, I'm one of them, found that the new way to use the space is actually better than covered center console and cancled their add on center console pre-order. Even the touch screen that has wowed many had its share of detracters in the beginning. Nobody is complaining now that we all know how nice it is to use it. As people say those who hate Tesla cars are always the ones who have never owned or driven one. The new 2nd row seat will prove to be no exception imo. We'll see.

 

[AlMc]

Agreed. I might also add that the one or two issues that got some so worked up might not be issues at all. Some people are so fixated on the matter of fact must have seat that could fold flat need to think outside the box like Tesla always do. There could always be unconventional but better way of doing things. That's how Tesla function and reason why they could produce those great products. Remember the so much hated flat center floor in the MS? It turned out many people, I'm one of them, found that the new way to use the space is actually better than covered center console and cancled their add on center console pre-order. Even the touch screen that has wowed many had its share of detracters in the beginning. Nobody is complaining now that we all know how nice it is to use it. As people say those who hate Tesla cars are always the ones who have never owned or driven one. The new 2nd row seat will prove to be no exception imo. We'll see.

Please do not tell me how to think. Even out of the box thinkers do not get it right 100% of the time. I suspect (opinion) that this was a decision of form over function. I can not believe that the engineers at TM could not produce a comfortable seat that would have the same safety rating as the one offered currently to Sig holders and fold flat. I have been wrong before and may be wrong again.

I will wait to see the final product before deciding if the positive aspects of the X outweigh any compromises in form or function that I, individually, must accept. So far, I am hanging in with my reservation. I am heartened that Bonnie has confirmed as I know from her posts she had some of the same concerns.

 

[PGeer]

Having heard these and others personally, I just have to smile at the conclusions that are leapt to, here, about a yet-to-be-revealed X, that are based on 2 things: Design Studio leather-nonleather-color-choice-aid renderings and statements from Sales.

Small correction: the comments I've received (about "big surprises", details to be revealed the 29th, that "you'll be very pleased by what you'll be seeing) all came from a senior delivery specialist who had just come back from initial exposure to the X--a product he anticipates he'll have to start delivering in a few weeks time. I agree about what we hear from sales folks.

 

[CarlK]

Please do not tell me how to think. Even out of the box thinkers do not get it right 100% of the time. I suspect (opinion) that this was a decision of form over function. I can not believe that the engineers at TM could not produce a comfortable seat that would have the same safety rating as the one offered currently to Sig holders and fold flat. I have been wrong before and may be wrong again.

I will wait to see the final product before deciding if the positive aspects of the X outweigh any compromises in form or function that I, individually, must accept. So far, I am hanging in with my reservation. I am heartened that Bonnie has confirmed as I know from her posts she had some of the same concerns.

No problem with how you want to think. We don't have a homogenious world that everyone thinks the same. I'm just saying how I, as a Tesla customer, need to think to enjoy the product. Anyway I can't imagine that Tesla team would spend so much time and trouble and not just to use the prototype seat if they didn't beleive that it is the best possible design that could please the most people.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

Small correction: the comments I've received (about "big surprises", details to be revealed the 29th, that "you'll be very pleased by what you'll be seeing) all came from a senior delivery specialist who had just come back from initial exposure to the X--a product he anticipates he'll have to start delivering in a few weeks time. I agree about what we hear from sales folks.

I did not mean to imply that your DES who had actually experienced the car is in the same category as sales staff who have not.
That was kind of my point. Actual exposure to a 3-D Car carries much more weight with me!

 

[AnOutsider]

No problem with how you want to think. We don't have a homogenious world that everyone thinks the same. I'm just saying how I, as a Tesla customer, need to think to enjoy the product. Anyway I can't imagine that Tesla team would spend so much time and trouble and not just to use the prototype seat if they didn't beleive that it is the best possible design that could please the most people.

The "best possible to please most people" would have been comfortable seats that fold (as evidenced on the prototype). Now I'm sure there's a REASON we didn't get them. I don't think they just decided they didn't need it, and that what we have seen so far is the "best possible to please most people". It's a compromise IMO, and it may be 100% justified, but it's still a compromise.

 

[dsm363]

Why would anyone do that since they can easily fold down the seats and put the golf bags in the back?

:smile:

I'd imagine they would still fit in the Model X with the third row folded down. How big are you golf bags?

 

[dsm363]

. I trust nobody blindly, least of all Tesla.

Only Eds.

That's a joke, right?