New renderings of storage space and 2nd row seats! (9/15)

[Yggdrasill]

Done. Measured from back of second row seat back, on the floor (meaning across the backs of the third row seat backs) to the inside lip of the hatchback measured with the hatchback closed. So that there isn't a disagreement if it's close, 59" or less for you to win, 61" and greater for me to win. No winner for distances from 59" to 61".

Seems we might not get a winner:

Rear cargo well, 45x15x18" deep, above the cargo shelf, 18" to the curve of the hatch (lowest point). 12" from back of 3rd row to hatch (approx) at top of seat, 15" at bottom of seat back.


3rd row folded, 50" from back of middle seats to hatch when middle seats are all the way back, 60" if they are in their full forward position. 27.5" from folded rear seats to C pillar cross beam, which appears to be a constant as there's a beefy support for the FWD hinge there the full length of the back.

In 6 seat config. You have a 15" gap between the middle seats and an 80" linear space to the back. One of the test ride cars was configured this way with a center console that provided an arm rest.

Frunk is about 44" wide, 22" deep and roughly 15-18" long. (I wasn't able to get that measurement with the crowd)

A 6' man can easily stand up in the 3rd row seat area with the FWD open and the middle seat in forward position for 3rd row access.

Adaptive FWD open/close is amazing to watch with people nearby.

Peter+

I would have preferred that you had won. 60" is pretty bad.

 

[smac]

Called it

In short you have effectively lost 18" of capacity compared to the S with fixed middle seats

Model S = 78"
Model X = 78" - 18" = 60"

 

[stopcrazypp]

Reading the launch details, looks like the official reason for unfoldable seats is the single pedestal floor mount designed for better third row access. Given the floor rails will be configured for that single pedestal, I'm not sure if there will ever be a foldable version (outside of redesigned floor rails).

 

[X-Wing]

Seems we might not get a winner:



I would have preferred that you had won. 60" is pretty bad.

You two are such good sports that I would love to buy you both a beer.

Honestly 60" is not THAT bad for maybe 95% of the time. The car is capable of carrying additional cargo under the 2nd row and frunk. It does mean that:

1. You cannot sleep/camp comfortably in the back
2. You will not be able to carry a bookcase from Ikea with the 7 passenger configuration, which admittedly is pretty lame for an SUV.

But unless you are Bjorn Nyland doing long distance Nimber tasks on a regular basis. I suspect that the Model X fits >95% of the use cases that typical owners will throw at it. As for the trip to Ikea. Perhaps rent a U-Haul trailer for the day?

Of course if folding rear seats is an option, I will opt for it over the current "sculptured art" design.

- - - Updated - - -

Physically it is possible with the rear seat back fold forward on top of the seat saddle. This is the most intuitive and simple solution. However this design probably was too difficult to certify for certain major markets (e.g. USA). Thus we have the current design.

Hopefully Tesla engineers figure out a way eventually.

 

[yobigd20]

I would have preferred that you had won. 60" is pretty bad.

wow, that's only 5ft. there's no way you're getting things like a door from HD in there.

Called it



Model S = 78"
Model X = 78" - 18" = 60"

yea it's pretty bad that the S has more storage length space than the X. it's pretty sad really.

I'm not sure if there will ever be a foldable version (outside of redesigned floor rails).

i hope thats not the case

Hopefully Tesla engineer figures out a way eventually.

they better. otherwise major FAIL to Tesla.

 

[tonyinc]

Reading the launch details, looks like the official reason for unfoldable seats is the single pedestal floor mount designed for better third row access. Given the floor rails will be configured for that single pedestal, I'm not sure if there will ever be a foldable version (outside of redesigned floor rails).

I have to disagree with >95% of use cases. According to the measurements, with the 2nd row slid back there is only 50". So you only get the meager 60" when the car is in 2 person mode!
50" is not enough to fit a single high backed chair! VERY lame for any "utility" vehicle. Such a long way to go to make it easy to work with car seats.

If this is the case, I will cancel my reservation.

 

[gizmoboy]

I have to disagree with >95% of use cases. According to the measurements, with the 2nd row slid back there is only 50". So you only get the meager 60" when the car is in 2 person mode!
50" is not enough to fit a single high backed chair! VERY lame for any "utility" vehicle. Such a long way to go to make it easy to work with car seats.

If this is the case, I will cancel my reservation.

If?

 

[Skotty]

I really can't imagine Tesla coming out with a Model X where second row seats are not foldable, ideally creating a flat surface, but at the minimum like what we have in the Model S. One doesn't buy such a car primarily for 3rd row seats (yes it's a practical option for many), one buys it for flexibility in cargo space and to some extent off road capability (or at least easier access to side roads, mountain conditions, etc).

It's unfortunate the current version doesn't have seats that fold flat, but they do provide under seat storage which is often overlooked (I myself didn't consider this advantage at first) and I suspect few if any other vehicles have such thing.

However, how big an issue this is will depend on the buyer. For me, I'm not looking for flexibility in cargo space nor offroad capability. It's more about ease of entry/exit for myself, family, children, and older folks like my grandmother. The cargo space is sufficient, only lacking in ability to hold extremely long items with the trunk closed. I need that capability maybe once a year, at which time, if I don't want something hanging out the back, I can use a pickup truck. We currently have a 2012 Ford Escape, and with Escape rear seats folded, the length is roughly the same as the Model X (and only 31" with rear seats up). What this says to me is that the Model X is not deficient for it's class in cargo length, it's just not a leader in that metric, and was not made a top priority. I know the 2008-2012 Escape is not one of the monsters like the Escalade, but it's still considered an SUV.

If you want an even bigger SUV like an Escalade or a Hummer, I suspect Tesla might come out with one sometime in the 2020's after Model 3 and Roadster 2 (Model Y?).

 

[X-Wing]

I have to disagree with >95% of use cases. According to the measurements, with the 2nd row slid back there is only 50". So you only get the meager 60" when the car is in 2 person mode!
50" is not enough to fit a single high backed chair! VERY lame for any "utility" vehicle. Such a long way to go to make it easy to work with car seats.

If this is the case, I will cancel my reservation.

Admittedly, for some families and businesses a SUV (e.g. XC90) or a cargo van (Sprinter) will be more appropriate.

I also agree that Tesla should have done more and offer fold flat rear seat as suggested in earlier presentation slides. In some industries this would've been considered misrepresentation and not only can the buyer back out of the contract but also entitled to damages. Anyways, I digress.

But even as is, with the 2nd row in place. You have 50" in length which is about the equivalent of a Golf/Focus hatchback with rear seat folded. That's quite a lot of space actually and I can certainly live with that.

Of course my primary focus is on the ability to carry people. So, I can also appreciate the need for more flexible cargo carry space from other perspective owners. In short, Tesla screwed up and should've done more.

 

[Electric1]

I will be replacing a 200k plus Sequoia with my X. In all those miles i have folded the seats fewer than a dozen times. I probably can work arround the problem for such infrequent use, considering all of the other benefits of an X over a Sequoia, but then again, i am n oi t in the heavy hauling business

 

[tonyinc]

I will be replacing a 200k plus Sequoia with my X. In all those miles i have folded the seats fewer than a dozen times. I probably can work arround the problem for such infrequent use, considering all of the other benefits of an X over a Sequoia, but then again, i am n oi t in the heavy hauling business

We are not talking about a heavy hauling business. Go measure your dining room chair. Mine is 53". Your Sequoia could probably carry that without folding any seats down. I think as people start to realize how small a 50" (and that is the longest when laying on the floor) the 6 seat option will become the more popular.

- - - Updated - - -

I am waiting on more info on the 6 seat option before cancelling. That may work for me. Definitely better than not being able to carry a dinning room chair.

Reservation #16,448

 

[vandacca]

Reading the launch details, looks like the official reason for unfoldable seats is the single pedestal floor mount designed for better third row access. Given the floor rails will be configured for that single pedestal, I'm not sure if there will ever be a foldable version (outside of redesigned floor rails).

BTW, the prototype had foldable seats on a pedestal, so I don't think Tesla removed the fold-able option for ability to get to the 3rd row. Perhaps it has to do with safety, but I think Tesla underestimated the value of folding seats to SUV customers. I think the 6-seat option is a quick temporary solution to appease some people.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I will be replacing a 200k plus Sequoia with my X. In all those miles i have folded the seats fewer than a dozen times. I probably can work arround the problem for such infrequent use, considering all of the other benefits of an X over a Sequoia, but then again, i am n oi t in the heavy hauling business

I've got 194k miles on my '97 CR-V and thanks to the size of my large dogs, my back seats have probably been down for at least 9 of the past 18 years. Over those same 18 years, there was only one time when I needed seating for 6 or more.

I became interested in the X because Elon said it was an even better SUV than the S is a sedan. SUV = Sports Utility Vehicle and Utility for me is being able to carry passengers, dogs or cargo, not just passengers.

 

[EfficientWatts]

Seeing the seats reminds me of airline seats in general terms of design and structure. but they have to go through a lot of engineering and safety checks to ensure they are safe in accidents and stuff. Last thing you would want is for the seatback to move/buckle in an event of an accident.

However, such airline seats also indicates that a version with reclining and/or folding is not out of the question (like the business-class flatbeds). As others pointed out, it is likely that the Tesla engineers ran out of time, and they made the call to go with non-fordable seats.

I could see the seats folding backward while the seat itself moves forward instead of folding onto itself, like with a business class airline seat. This would expose the seat leather, but that may be ok. (I can kind of do this in my Prius today, pull the passenger front seat forward and then recline all the way back, creating a longer cargo space that while not 100% flat is more useable for something super long).

 

[gfb107]

Did any one else notice the cupholders for the 2nd row

:

 

[AlMc]

I've got 194k miles on my '97 CR-V and thanks to the size of my large dogs, my back seats have probably been down for at least 9 of the past 18 years. Over those same 18 years, there was only one time when I needed seating for 6 or more.

I became interested in the X because Elon said it was an even better SUV than the S is a sedan. SUV = Sports Utility Vehicle and Utility for me is being able to carry passengers, dogs or cargo, not just passengers.

^^THIS. I was at the event and just returned home to the east coast. In my household the S was a No compromise sedan: nice looks, good range, carries 5-7 people, large storage/utility area with folded second row seats, incredible performance. The X is compromised for my use ( for others it may be great). It is a nice people mover but does have compromised 'utility'.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Too funny that neither one of us won our bet. When I do see a Model X in person, I'll bring a tape measure just to make sure.

Being able to stow stuff under the seat is nice. Kids school bags would go there. On trips, your day bag would go there. Very useful.

I still would like folding seats though...

 

[Mark Z]

... I think the 6-seat option is a quick temporary solution to appease some people.

With the popularity of the Six Seat Interior, I feel it could be a permanent offering from Tesla Motors. The absence of the center seat has many advantages IF you don't need seven passenger seating. The two 2nd row passengers will be happier without someone next to them in the center. Rear seat passengers should enjoy better airflow and some extra stretch room by sitting on a slight angle with feet in the center area. The console featured in one of the vehicles at the Launch Event is being considered as an option, but is not available at this time. Personally, I would prefer a smaller armrest that swings out of the way IF the console we were able to see is NOT removable.

 

[ohmman]

With the popularity of the Six Seat Interior, I feel it could be a permanent offering from Tesla Motors.

IF I do configure and order my MX, I am hopeful it'll still be an offering at that time. I would choose it. The third row access is much better, and that middle seat head and foot clearance look pretty poor anyway.

 

[baillies]

6 sets are popular in China and around Asia. I have never been in a 7 seat in China/Hk but have been in many 6 seat versions. I think Tesla marketing would have run the numbers and found 6 or 7 was better than flat second row in terms of overall global sales. Elon mentioned that his 'utility' need was for handling twins and I am sure the pedistal mount is much better for third row foot room compared to other similar size SUV. I have a Grandis which has little foot room but flat folding which I only use a few times a year.

question is if the fixed headrest is also an obstacle for the folding and why have this if this is the result. I am not sure it is safety as the folding mechanism must not add too much weight unless other companies that have had integrated seat belt and folding chairs have had crash failures of the mechanism. Elon mentioned safety was the first design consideration. Maybe Elon or the responsible engineer will do a blog post to explain the reasons.