Newer P90DL makes 662 hp at the battery!!!

[P85DEE]

Where does it say they wont. The speeds aren't even as high as normal driving on the autobahn.

My gosh man.

You keep bringing up the Autobahn.

It's irrelevant.

Do they put VHT on the Autobahn?

Does VHT provide traction and tire grip beyond what would be found on a typical street surface?

Yes, VHT can damn near take your shoes off if you walk across a racing surface with it on it.

So if you were to start having drive train trouble after hard launches on a VHT prepped surface, what the hell has that to do with the Autobahn?

Should a manufacturer be required to cover drive train issues after you've done countless full power launches on a VHT prepared racing surface?

You think they should? Go ahead, bust something cutting a 1.50 or even better 60ft time and try it.

Do people do launches in the middle of the Autobahn after the Autobahn has been sprayed with VHT?

It's clear that if you learn, it will have to be the hard way.

You realize that "drifting" is not racing, but one can have a warranty repair as a result of doing it to "test" the vehicle, denied.

But again I say, I ain't the one you'll need to convince.

If you're talking an untimed event, such as an HPDE, then you may have a leg to stand on. Some call it driver education.

But a timed event such as a quarter mile pass? Well I hope that you never find yourself having to fight for a warranty repair for a mishap which occurs on a drag strip.

I said "racing tends to break things" and you asked"who's racing?"

Well let me clarify. Driving to extremes will usually expose the weakest link.

If you happen to expose one while on a drag strip, and it's discovered by the manufacturer that this was the locale where you discovered it, well then good luck convincing them that you were not racing while you were on that drag strip.

 

[P85DEE]

I know I will be called stupid besides gullible. But I tell the service technicians and their managers while I am charging that I am going drag racing and tell them my previous times. When I had Ludicrous installed I told the Service Manager my times before and after the installation. I even tell my original salesman my progress. Not once was I ever cautioned that if I break something it would not be covered. In almost 2 years and 22,000 miles nothing has broken except one door handle that would not extend.

I can understand a manufacturer not warranting a car used in racing but whether a Tesla accelerates from a stop sign or timing lights is a different situation. The engine (motor) cannot throw a rod, break the transmission or clutch, etc., so the risk is much smaller. At last Saturdays drag race in Fontana there were hundreds of owners willing to take the risk. As a side note a new Camaro challenged me to a race. He did 13.0 to my 11.5 and of course he was embarrassed but he knew it was coming.

Jeezus.

This is incredible.

Those who think they know, but don't.

A major warranty repair typically has to be approved way up the food chain and at a higher level of employee that you are referring to.

Furthermore, it is not uncommon for the manufacturer to send a regional inspector to investigate the matter and inspect the car prior to approving a major warranty claim.

No, you can't "throw a rod".

But as one example that I'd point out, and there may be others, as of this point, it is quite unknown what effects some of these 1.5xx launches will have.

In your case, taking into account all that you have posted up in here regarding your car, and your tracking, it would be quite easy for them to at the very least stall, if not outright deny you warranty coverage for a major power train issue, if they got a "firm notion" to do so.

And if they were to do so you'd have to seek legal remedies to have a mishap covered.

You could always tell them though that what you've described in here regarding your tracking, is the same as driving on the Autobahn and they'd forget the whole thing and honor your warranty.

 

[NSX1992]

@P85DEE
I have had it up to here with your continuous insults of me and others. You think you know everything but cannot accept facts that are contrary to your own beliefs. By the way my tires slip more at the drags than on an ordinary street. It was real nice here for a couple of days but you had to come back to get over the 3,000 posts.

 

[msnow]

@P85DEE
I have had it up to here with your continuous insults of me and others. You think you know everything but cannot accept facts that are contrary to your own beliefs. By the way my tires slip more at the drags than on an ordinary street. It was real nice here for a couple of days but you had to come back to get over the 3,000 posts.

So let's see, insults, misinformation, narcissist, can't admit being wrong, middle of the night raging posts. Hmmm, sound familiar?

 

[P85DEE]

.....This was my third event in 3 weeks at 2 different tracks so I am certainly not concerned about warranty problems or afraid in getting in an accident to justify not trying to get the unattainable 10.9 or life insurance...

I remember you saying it somewhere, but aren't you 70 some odd years old?

The reason why I ask is because yes, you might not be concerned about potential life insurance matters for an on track fatality that the insurance company refuse to pay off on because racing was an exclusion in the policy.

But one of these young guys with a young family that he is the breadwinner for, just might want to check his own policy to be absolutely sure that no such exclusion exists in his policy.

I don't think that having tippy argue that "it wasn't reeeeealy racing" would likely suffice either.

 

[NSX1992]

I was hinting that you were using these excuses not to drag your P85DL to show us that you could do 11.0 which would be close enough to convince me that a P90DL v1 could do 10.9. I know MT is your gospel but don't forget Car and Driver an equally respected magazine could only get 11.1.

Yes I am 76 but your extreme concern about safety indicates to me you live a very sheltered life behind your computer.

 

[St Charles]

I know you guys all want to hate on @P85DEE but he is correct. We all agreed to the terms of the Warranty Agreement when we bought our cars (*). If the service center chooses to refuse warranty service due to abuse/racing/off road clauses the only real recourse we have is the legal system. At the very least you are paying a lawyer to scare Tesla into action. Thems the brakes for going to the drag strip. Keep in mind that Tesla doesn't tell you what to do with your car. They are just saying if you break it, they don't have to fix it.

That said. Yes, Tesla currently seems to be more compliant, in general, regarding warranty coverage. Also, the individual service centers make the initial decision on what to do with broken cars and I suspect corporate for the most part goes along with that assessment. So as @fiksegts mentions, it's a VERY GOOD THING to know your service advisors VERY WELL. ESPECIALLY if you are looking to "Test" your car, anywhere. This is all human interaction 101. Play nice with everyone so they'll play nice with you.

I've been on the receiving end of this on both sides with Ford. I've broken a transmission which they repaired no questions asked and then broken an axle which they claimed was caused by me. When I did the math in my head, I quickly determined that it was MUCH better for me to pay the bill with a smile on my face and keep a good working relationship with my service center rather than ruin that with Lawyers. Especially since I knew my happy ass was going right back to the track the next weekend.

(*)I am not a lawyer

 

[TIppy]

My gosh man.

You keep bringing up the Autobahn.

It's irrelevant.

Do they put VHT on the Autobahn?

Does VHT provide traction and tire grip beyond what would be found on a typical street surface?

Yes, VHT can damn near take your shoes off if you walk across a racing surface with it on it.

So if you were to start having drive train trouble after hard launches on a VHT prepped surface, what the hell has that to do with the Autobahn?

Should a manufacturer be required to cover drive train issues after you've done countless full power launches on a VHT prepared racing surface?

You think they should? Go ahead, bust something cutting a 1.50 or even better 60ft time and try it.

Do people do launches in the middle of the Autobahn after the Autobahn has been sprayed with VHT?

It's clear that if you learn, it will have to be the hard way.

You realize that "drifting" is not racing, but one can have a warranty repair as a result of doing it to "test" the vehicle, denied.

But again I say, I ain't the one you'll need to convince.

If you're talking an untimed event, such as an HPDE, then you may have a leg to stand on. Some call it driver education.

But a timed event such as a quarter mile pass? Well I hope that you never find yourself having to fight for a warranty repair for a mishap which occurs on a drag strip.

I said "racing tends to break things" and you asked"who's racing?"

Well let me clarify. Driving to extremes will usually expose the weakest link.

If you happen to expose one while on a drag strip, and it's discovered by the manufacturer that this was the locale where you discovered it, well then good luck convincing them that you were not racing while you were on that drag strip.

They could coat it with anything you like and it wouldn't change the pre-programmed torque curve in the car. Unless of course it's something that lowers the coefficient of friction.

No one is saying they should cover countless full power launches. I'm saying don't test your car on the streets. Take it to drag strip and do a couple of runs to see if it meets specs. That will not subject the car to anything more than normal driving would.

The autobahn is relevant because they sell the car into that market and the car should be designed to handle those rigors.

 

[P85DEE]

I was hinting that you were using these excuses not to drag your P85DL to show us that you could do 11.0 which would be close enough to convince me that a P90DL v1 could do 10.9. I know MT is your gospel but don't forget Car and Driver an equally respected magazine could only get 11.1.

Yes I am 76 but your extreme concern about safety indicates to me you live a very sheltered life behind your computer.

You tell me why I ought to put my car on a track when you're basically doing it for me?

I'm perfectly content to have you beat the hell out of your car to give me indication as to what mine will do.

Perfectly happy to let you take all the risk.

Go right ahead.

Perfectly content to not have to go out of my way to insure that whatever track attempt I'd make be done at a full charge and the inconvenience which goes along with that.

I've made enough quarter mile passes and run enough road courses over my lifetime to hold me for a while.

I'm a long way from 76, but I don't have anything to prove to you.

A P85D with Ludicrous is capable of running 11.2.

You discovered this.

Since by the report of many in here, it takes no skill to pilot this particular car down the quarter, where is my need to prove that it can be done any quicker than that?

I'll let you potentially bust your ass attempting to prove that it can.

If someone is going to bust his car, or worse yet bust his ass attempting to prove that a P85DL can cover the quarter in 11.1, well then the way I see it, better you than me.

 

[P85DEE]

They could coat it with anything you like and it wouldn't change the pre-programmed torque curve in the car. Unless of course it's something that lowers the coefficient of friction.

No one is saying they should cover countless full power launches. I'm saying don't test your car on the streets. Take it to drag strip and do a couple of runs to see if it meets specs. That will not subject the car to anything more than normal driving would.

The autobahn is relevant because they sell the car into that market and the car should be designed to handle those rigors.

You seem to have your argument all prepared for if they deny you warranty coverage for breakage on a drag strip.

If they should decide to deny you coverage, then I wonder how long your car will sit unrepaired before you get to use that argument, or before you cover the damages yourself and then use your argument in an attempt to get reimbursement for your cash outlay.

I'm not the one you'll need to convince.

 

[St Charles]

They could coat it with anything you like and it wouldn't change the pre-programmed torque curve in the car. Unless of course it's something that lowers the coefficient of friction.

No one is saying they should cover countless full power launches. I'm saying don't test your car on the streets. Take it to drag strip and do a couple of runs to see if it meets specs. That will not subject the car to anything more than normal driving would.

The autobahn is relevant because they sell the car into that market and the car should be designed to handle those rigors.

VHT Glues your tires to the ground. This vastly increases traction and ensures that almost all torque is applied to the goal of moving the car forward. If your tires slip, it's likely to wreak havoc on a your suspension as well. Regular roads do not have this advantage and provide vastly less traction capability then a prepared drag strip.

Yes! Drag strips are much harder on cars than a regular road would be. But that's why we go to the track, because we have a better chance of achieving our goals. You gotta pay to play.

 

[TIppy]

I know you guys all want to hate on @P85DEE but he is correct. We all agreed to the terms of the Warranty Agreement when we bought our cars (*). If the service center chooses to refuse warranty service due to abuse/racing/off road clauses the only real recourse we have is the legal system. At the very least you are paying a lawyer to scare Tesla into action. Thems the brakes for going to the drag strip. Keep in mind that Tesla doesn't tell you what to do with your car. They are just saying if you break it, they don't have to fix it.

That said. Yes, Tesla currently seems to be more compliant, in general, regarding warranty coverage. Also, the individual service centers make the initial decision on what to do with broken cars and I suspect corporate for the most part goes along with that assessment. So as @fiksegts mentions, it's a VERY GOOD THING to know your service advisors VERY WELL. ESPECIALLY if you are looking to "Test" your car, anywhere. This is all human interaction 101. Play nice with everyone so they'll play nice with you.

I've been on the receiving end of this on both sides with Ford. I've broken a transmission which they repaired no questions asked and then broken an axle which they claimed was caused by me. When I did the math in my head, I quickly determined that it was MUCH better for me to pay the bill with a smile on my face and keep a good working relationship with my service center rather than ruin that with Lawyers. Especially since I knew my happy ass was going right back to the track the next weekend.

(*)I am not a lawyer

Believe me I know they can be jerks, but I don't think the racing clause is designed with a couple of runs down a drag strip in mind. They want you to know that if you use your car for competitive racing, which it wasn't designed for, they wont fix your car for you.

 

[P85DEE]

VHT Glues your tires to the ground. This vastly increases traction and ensures that almost all torque is applied to the goal of moving the car forward. If your tires slip, it's likely to wreak havoc on a your suspension as well. Regular roads do not have this advantage and provide vastly less traction capability then a prepared drag strip.

Yes! Drag strips are much harder on cars than a regular road would be. But that's why we go to the track, because we have a better chance of achieving our goals. You gotta pay to play.

Shhhh St Charles, don't tell him "sugar".

He likes to argue.

Let him bust something and carry his "Autobahn" argument in with him if they deny his warranty claim and let's see how he comes out.

 

[TIppy]

VHT Glues your tires to the ground. This vastly increases traction and ensures that almost all torque is applied to the goal of moving the car forward. If your tires slip, it's likely to wreak havoc on a your suspension as well. Regular roads do not have this advantage and provide vastly less traction capability then a prepared drag strip.

Yes! Drag strips are much harder on cars than a regular road would be. But that's why we go to the track, because we have a better chance of achieving our goals. You gotta pay to play.

Yes, but the tesla wont provide anymore torque because the track is sticky. And again I say, I'm not going to the track to race every weekend. I'm going once to confirm the performance of my car. If it can't hold up to that, it's a pretty poor vehicle.

 

[St Charles]

Believe me I know they can be jerks, but I don't think the racing clause is designed with a couple of runs down a drag strip in mind. They want you to know that if you use your car for competitive racing, which it wasn't designed for, they wont fix your car for you.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I am saying the verbiage in the limited warranty is enough to decline warranty coverage in the event an issue is discovered at a drag strip. I am saying I have fought this battle and lost. I am saying I have also fought this battle and won.

 

[P85DEE]

.... You gotta pay to play.

To let some in here tell it, no you don't.

You bust something "playing", then it's Tesla's responsibility to cover it.

It's just like driving on the Autobahn or speeding up an on ramp even though I've never seen an on ramp with VHT on it. Have you?.

 

[P85DEE]

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I am saying the verbiage in the limited warranty is enough to decline warranty coverage in the event an issue is discovered at a drag strip. I am saying I have fought this battle and lost. I am saying I have also fought this battle and won.

You are never going to get this point across in here.

Not telling you to give it up, just making a prediction.

You're going to get arguments on this matter from people who have never suffered an on track mishap in a street vehicle which was still under warranty, but who will insist that they know more about it than you do.

 

[TIppy]

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I am saying the verbiage in the limited warranty is enough to decline warranty coverage in the event an issue is discovered at a drag strip. I am saying I have fought this battle and lost. I am saying I have also fought this battle and won.

They can decline it for any or no reason. But I'm not saying that I'm coming in with damage they should fix that I caused abusing the car at the track.

I'm saying my car isn't performing. Why not?

It's very unlikely the car will break from a couple of runs at a drag strip. And even more unlikely they wouldn't fix it. You can't stay coward inside afraid of all the things that might happen, no matter how unlikely.

 

[St Charles]

Yes, but the tesla wont provide anymore torque because the track is sticky. And again I say, I'm not going to the track to race every weekend. I'm going once to confirm the performance of my car. If it can't hold up to that, it's a pretty poor vehicle.

This is true, yes. But there is a lot more going on in a higher traction scenario then what the car may be designed for. I'll give you my example. My 2013 Mustang GT, which I took to the drag strip often, had a problem keeping the wheels on the ground when they would break traction. The tires wouldn't just slide across the ground. They would hop up and down which would send shockwaves through the drivetrain and suspension. This is called "wheel Hop" and it will destroy most stock suspensions and drive trains. With the increased traction provided at the drag strip, wheel hop is amplified. I tried to fix this ahead of going to the strip by beefing up my lower control arms with tubular frames and polyurethane bushings. On the street this was more than adequate. But, once I put on my drag radials and went to the strip, I still had wheel hop. after a single day of runs, I had managed to bend one of my axles just enough that I could hear it touch the rear brake pads on each revolution.

So, I took the stang back to the dealership and tried to get them to replace it for me. The service advisor, after looking over the car asked me if I had maybe hit a nasty pothole or something because these things just don't bend like this and break. At this point I was pretty much stuck. I knew what I did and I knew where and when it happened. I also knew how Ford reacts to your car being flagged for warranty coverage denials. It was an $800 lesson on what "you gotta pay to play" means.

 

[TIppy]

I've never seen an on ramp with VHT on it.

What is it about pre-programmed torque curve that you don't get?