Newer P90DL makes 662 hp at the battery!!!

[St Charles]

They can decline it for any or no reason. But I'm not saying that I'm coming in with damage they should fix that I caused abusing the car at the track.

I'm saying my car isn't performing. Why not?

It's very unlikely the car will break from a couple of runs at a drag strip. And even more unlikely they wouldn't fix it. You can't stay coward inside afraid of all the things that might happen, no matter how unlikely.

I'm not sure "Coward" is a word you should use..

Your assumptions aren't reasonable. If something happens to your car at a drag strip, Tesla is not legally bound to repair it. It doesn't matter if you think they should. You signed the paper that says they get to determine this. Read your warranty guide. If you still don't understand it, go talk to a lawyer. You assume ALL the risk to you and your car at the track. All of it. No exceptions. If you don't agree to that do not go to the track.

 

[TIppy]

This is true, yes. But there is a lot more going on in a higher traction scenario then what the car may be designed for. I'll give you my example. My 2013 Mustang GT, which I took to the drag strip often, had a problem keeping the wheels on the ground when they would break traction. The tires wouldn't just slide across the ground. They would hop up and down which would send shockwaves through the drivetrain and suspension. This is called "wheel Hop" and it will destroy most stock suspensions and drive trains. With the increased traction provided at the drag strip, wheel hop is amplified. I tried to fix this ahead of going to the strip by beefing up my lower control arms with tubular frames and polyurethane bushings. On the street this was more than adequate. But, once I put on my drag radials and went to the strip, I still had wheel hop. after a single day of runs, I had managed to bend one of my axles just enough that I could hear it touch the rear brake pads on each revolution.

So, I took the stang back to the dealership and tried to get them to replace it for me. The service advisor, after looking over the car asked me if I had maybe hit a nasty pothole or something because these things just don't bend like this and break. At this point I was pretty much stuck. I knew what I did and I knew where and when it happened. I also knew how Ford reacts to your car being flagged for warranty coverage denials. It was an $800 lesson on what "you gotta pay to play" means.

With all the extra stick, above what the torque was designed for, the wheels shouldn't break loose. And if they do, the aggressive traction control on these cars should kill it pretty quickly.
Have you experienced this in your tesla? How many here have bent an axle from wheel hop at the drag strip in their teslas?

 

[msnow]

I'm not sure "Coward" is a word you should use..

Your assumptions aren't reasonable. If something happens to your car at a drag strip, Tesla is not legally bound to repair it. It doesn't matter if you think they should. You signed the paper that says they get to determine this. Read your warranty guide. If you still don't understand it, go talk to a lawyer. You assume ALL the risk to you and your car at the track. All of it. No exceptions. If you don't agree to that do not go to the track.

Well most of you guys go to the track so obviously it's not something you guys are worried about. @St Charles do you have the actual verbiage you are talking about that you can paste here?

 

[P85DEE]

What is it about pre-programmed torque curve that you don't get?

What is it about "I'm not the one you'll need to convince should you be denied warranty coverage for an on track or track related failure" that you don't get?

 

[TIppy]

I'm not sure "Coward" is a word you should use..

Your assumptions aren't reasonable. If something happens to your car at a drag strip, Tesla is not legally bound to repair it. It doesn't matter if you think they should. You signed the paper that says they get to determine this. Read your warranty guide. If you still don't understand it, go talk to a lawyer. You assume ALL the risk to you and your car at the track. All of it. No exceptions. If you don't agree to that do not go to the track.

I thought you said you weren't a lawyer. How do you know they can limit their liability for things they can't show caused damage.

 

[TIppy]

What is it about "I'm not the one you'll need to convince should you be denied warranty coverage for an on track or track related failure" that you don't get?

There are lots of things that might happen that I don't get overly concerned about.

 

[P85DEE]

This is true, yes. But there is a lot more going on in a higher traction scenario then what the car may be designed for. I'll give you my example. My 2013 Mustang GT, which I took to the drag strip often, had a problem keeping the wheels on the ground when they would break traction. The tires wouldn't just slide across the ground. They would hop up and down which would send shockwaves through the drivetrain and suspension. This is called "wheel Hop" and it will destroy most stock suspensions and drive trains. With the increased traction provided at the drag strip, wheel hop is amplified. I tried to fix this ahead of going to the strip by beefing up my lower control arms with tubular frames and polyurethane bushings. On the street this was more than adequate. But, once I put on my drag radials and went to the strip, I still had wheel hop. after a single day of runs, I had managed to bend one of my axles just enough that I could hear it touch the rear brake pads on each revolution.

So, I took the stang back to the dealership and tried to get them to replace it for me. The service advisor, after looking over the car asked me if I had maybe hit a nasty pothole or something because these things just don't bend like this and break. At this point I was pretty much stuck. I knew what I did and I knew where and when it happened. I also knew how Ford reacts to your car being flagged for warranty coverage denials. It was an $800 lesson on what "you gotta pay to play" means.

You really are a Saint.

You're going to heaven for the lone act and if you never do another good deed in your life, of trying to explain wheel hop to some of the folk in here.

I broke an axle and damaged the ring and pinion in a Z06 due to wheel hop on a 1-2 shift and had to be towed.

When that happened the car would accept no throttle input.

Bear in mind that some of the "bravado" you're hearing in here, and the talk of "cowardice" is coming from people who've never broken anything at high speed on a racing surface in a street vehicle.

 

[St Charles]

Well most of you guys go to the track so obviously it's not something you guys are worried about. @St Charles do you have the actual verbiage you are talking about that you can paste here?

I do. I linked it a while back but here is the entire warranty document for North America. Directly off Tesla's site. Look on the top of page 4. And you are right, I assume those risks because I don't live in fear at home

I thought you said you weren't a lawyer. How do you know they can limit their liability for thing they can't show caused damage.

Because I've been there and I've done that. I am telling you that you are out of line with your assumptions here. But as some have said before me. It's no one on this thread you need to convince. it's between you and Tesla, should something happen.

Trying to compare what happened to my Mustang to what could happen to a Tesla is not a reasonable comparison. I told my story about the mustang to explain that things happen at a drag strip that are not accounted for.

If anything, it's more of a risk in certain ways, to take a Tesla to a drag strip because there aren't enough data points to determine common faults from racing. The car itself performs admirably at the track. But what if the battery critically overheats and the car shuts down. You gotta go to the service center and explain why you needed a tow from a drag strip. or maybe there is long term degradation to the motors or the battery. Or the extra bulk of the car, combined with the wheels not slipping as readily could have repercussions on seals and bushings. The point is, we don't know what could break. Assuming Tesla will just fix it is folly.

 

[St Charles]

You really are a Saint.

You're going to heaven for the lone act and if you never do another good deed in your life, of trying to explain wheel hop to some of the folk in here.

I broke an axle and damaged the ring and pinion in a Z06 due to wheel hop on a 1-2 shift and had to be towed.

When that happened the car would accept no throttle input.

Bear in mind that some of the "bravado" you're hearing in here, and the talk of "cowardice" is coming from people who've never broken anything at high speed on a racing surface in a street vehicle.

Ugh, Ring and pinion. I have a hatred for those. Let me tell you another story. Again, 2013 Mustang GT. I had a defect from the factory where the crush sleeve preload hadn't been set. It's supposed to be between 15-25in/lb on a Ford 8.8. Mine was 0 in/lb. Totally incorrect. After 500 miles of driving I had pretty awful gear whine. I really, really, REALLY hate gear whine. So, in to the shop it goes. They fix everything, tidy it up and give it back to me. With the same gears. Obviously, it's still gonna have whine since the original, incorrect pattern, is now worn into the gears. Back to the shop. More repairs, same gears. Still whine.

Eventually I talk to the shop advisor, who tells me that they can't replace the gears because they technically aren't broken. They perform their function and noise isn't a concern that Ford is willing to address. This goes on for a few months. Eventually I end up in front of a Lemon Law lawyer who calmly explains to me that since I had taken my car to the drag strip I was pretty much SOL if I end up in court. Also, even if I did win, the cost to me would still be more than the total cost to just have a professional mechanic set me up with new gears ($1500, Welcome to Northern Virginia )

As I said, you gotta pay to play.

 

[TIppy]

I broke an axle and damaged the ring and pinion in a Z06 due to wheel hop on a 1-2 shift and had to be towed.

There is no 1-2 shift, no stored rotational energy that creates torque spikes.

I do. I linked it a while back but here is the entire warranty document for North America. Directly off Tesla's site. Look on the top of page 4. And you are right, I assume those risks because I don't live in fear at home



Because I've been there and I've done that. I am telling you that you are out of line with your assumptions here. But as some have said before me. It's no one on this thread you need to convince. it's between you and Tesla, should something happen.

Trying to compare what happened to my Mustang to what could happen to a Tesla is not a reasonable comparison. I told my story about the mustang to explain that things happen at a drag strip that are not accounted for.

If anything, it's more of a risk in certain ways, to take a Tesla to a drag strip because there aren't enough data points to determine common faults from racing. The car itself performs admirably at the track. But what if the battery critically overheats and the car shuts down. You gotta go to the service center and explain why you needed a tow from a drag strip. or maybe there is long term degradation to the motors or the battery. Or the extra bulk of the car, combined with the wheels not slipping as readily could have repercussions on seals and bushings. The point is, we don't know what could break. Assuming Tesla will just fix it is folly.

You keep saying that I expect tesla to fix the damage you cause to your car through abuse. I'm saying that doing a couple of runs at the track to confirm performance isn't abuse. And tesla would have a hard time proving that the car wasn't designed to handle the stress. But I'm not saying I broke the car at the track and show up at tesla for repair. I'm saying that the car isn't performing; can you fix it. Is it possible I will be the first poor bastard that does one run at the track and breaks my car. Yes. But with all the other examples I've seen and everyday level of stress on the vehicle, it just isn't very likely. And I just don't think tesla would weasle out.

 

[P85DEE]

I do. I linked it a while back but here is the entire warranty document for North America. Directly off Tesla's site. Look on the top of page 4. And you are right, I assume those risks because I don't live in fear at home



Because I've been there and I've done that. I am telling you that you are out of line with your assumptions here. But as some have said before me. It's no one on this thread you need to convince. it's between you and Tesla, should something happen.

Trying to compare what happened to my Mustang to what could happen to a Tesla is not a reasonable comparison. I told my story about the mustang to explain that things happen at a drag strip that are not accounted for.

If anything, it's more of a risk in certain ways, to take a Tesla to a drag strip because there aren't enough data points to determine common faults from racing. The car itself performs admirably at the track. But what if the battery critically overheats and the car shuts down. You gotta go to the service center and explain why you needed a tow from a drag strip. or maybe there is long term degradation to the motors or the battery. Or the extra bulk of the car, combined with the wheels not slipping as readily could have repercussions on seals and bushings. The point is, we don't know what could break. Assuming Tesla will just fix it is folly.

Your post above us dead on.

There aren't enough data points to determine common faults from tracking these cars.

I've mentioned this before, but if a catastrophic failure or malfunction in this car occurs, Tesla can tell when, and where it happened and a number of other things as to what the car was doing when it happened.

Consider the autopilot "failures" Tesla has had to investigate.

Now consider someone who wants to make a warranty claim while insisting that they weren't abusing the car.

If Tesla gas to defend their decision in court not to cover the warranty claim, on the grounds that the failure occurred on a racing track, then why would they not be able to use any information they had to justify their position and defend themselves as long as what they had was ruled to be within the law?

On another note, I posted an excerpt from page 4 of the PDF you just posted up.

But because "see no evil, hear no evil's" eyes were closed and his hands were over his ears, well he missed it while ranting about "narcissists".

It would have been better to let him continue not knowing.

 

[P85DEE]

There is no 1-2 shift, no stored rotational energy that creates torque spikes.


You keep saying that I expect tesla to fix the damage you cause to your car through abuse. I'm saying that doing a couple of runs at the track to confirm performance isn't abuse. And tesla would have a hard time proving that the car wasn't designed to handle the stress. But I'm not saying I broke the car at the track and show up at tesla for repair. I'm saying that the car isn't performing; can you fix it. Is it possible I will be the first poor bastard that does one run at the track and breaks my car. Yes. But with all the other examples I've seen and everyday level of stress on the vehicle, it just isn't very likely. And I just don't think tesla would weasle out.

No, in a Tesla, there is of course no 1-2 shift.

I was only pointing out that failures can and do occur under extreme driving conditions on or off a track.

If the failure is deemed to be due to abuse, then the manufacturer can deny warranty repair for it.

You still aren't grasping that if you make even ONE drag strip pass and bust something in the process, if it is discovered that this is where it happened, you could be in for a warranty hassle.

 

[TIppy]

Eventually I end up in front of a Lemon Law lawyer who calmly explains to me that since I had taken my car to the drag strip I was pretty much SOL if I end up in court.

Probably so if they could show that the increased tack of the strip would cause forces in your diff that it wasn't designed for. But alas tesla wouldn't be able to show that.

 

[TIppy]

If the failure is deemed to be due to abuse, then the manufacturer can deny warranty repair for it.

Finally, we agree, kinda. It can't just be deemed. It has to be proven.

 

[P85DEE]

Finally, we agree, kinda. It can't just be deemed. It has to be proven.

No, we're still a distance apart.

They can immediately refuse to cover the damage should it happen on the drag strip.

At that point it's your move.

You can pay up, or you can pay up and then fight or you can just fight.

But of the three, if you fight, depending upon how far you have to take it, your car could be down for months while you're in the process of fighting.

And if you fight, or feel that you must fight, the outcome is not assured.

 

[TIppy]

I was only pointing out that failures can and do occur under extreme driving conditions on or off a track.

How is a single quarter mile pass an extreme condition. The loads aren't any different than I can generate accelerating on an on ramp.

 

[St Charles]

There is no 1-2 shift, no stored rotational energy that creates torque spikes.


You keep saying that I expect tesla to fix the damage you cause to your car through abuse. I'm saying that doing a couple of runs at the track to confirm performance isn't abuse. And tesla would have a hard time proving that the car wasn't designed to handle the stress. But I'm not saying I broke the car at the track and show up at tesla for repair. I'm saying that the car isn't performing; can you fix it. Is it possible I will be the first poor bastard that does one run at the track and breaks my car. Yes. But with all the other examples I've seen and everyday level of stress on the vehicle, it just isn't very likely. And I just don't think tesla would weasle out.

Tesla does have a battery that overheats very quickly...

The only thing I think you should be aware of is that you don't get to make the determination of what qualifies as abuse. It's in the warranty that Tesla gets to determine this. If they decide to deny the claim they don't have to prove anything to you. You have to legally force them to in court. I guaran-damn-tee you that if it comes to that, exhibit 'A' is the fault was detected in the logs, exhibit 'B' was where your car was when it happened, exhibit 'C' is the warranty with the racing clause highlighted. Game. Set. Match.

Dude, I mostly agree with you. I believe it's unlikely that my Tesla will break at the track. Even if it did, I'm pretty confident that the Service center will work with me to get the problem resolved. That's why I take mine to the track as much as I do/did. I'm not saying you shouldn't run yours. Just be mindful of the real risk you are taking.

 

[TIppy]

No, we're still a distance apart.

They can immediately refuse to cover the damage should it happen in the drag strip.

At that point it's your move.

You can pay up, or you can pay up and then fight or you can just fight.

But of the three, if you fight, depending upon how far you have to take it, your car could be down for months while you're in the process of fighting.

And if you fight, or feel that you must fight, the outcome is not assured.

As I've said before than can refuse at will, but will they? How likely is your Armageddon if I test my car?

 

[TIppy]

Tesla does have a battery that overheats very quickly...

The only thing I think you should be aware of is that you don't get to make the determination of what qualifies as abuse. It's in the warranty that Tesla gets to determine this. If they decide to deny the claim they don't have to prove anything to you. You have to legally force them to in court. I guaran-damn-tee you that if it comes to that, exhibit 'A' is the fault was detected in the logs, exhibit 'B' was where your car was when it happened, exhibit 'C' is the warranty with the racing clause highlighted. Game. Set. Match.

Dude, I mostly agree with you. I believe it's unlikely that my Tesla will break at the track. Even if it did, I'm pretty confident that the Service center will work with me to get the problem resolved. That's why I take mine to the track as much as I do/did. I'm not saying you shouldn't run yours. Just be mindful of the real risk you are taking.

It's not game set match. Just because somebody writes something down doesn't make it fact. Manufacturers can't just limit their liability by fiat. If they decide to offer a warranty they are bound by certain rules. But again, I'm not showing up with a car I broke. I want them to fix my car because it's not performing.

 

[St Charles]

It's not game set match. Just because somebody writes something down doesn't make it fact. Manufacturers can't just limit their liability by fiat. If they decide to offer a warranty they are bound by certain rules.

Uh, yeah. And you agreed to those rules. You agreed to them when you signed the sales paperwork. Just because you don't like it now doesn't mean you can ignore it. Oh sure, you can try and force that in front of a judge. Which you would have to do, if it came to that. I wouldn't bet on your odds of winning.

I'm just saying. This is a pretty tried and true part of any limited warranty document. Don't take my word for it (you won't, I know) go chat up a lawyer. I'm sure one will talk to you for a free 15 minutes and explain it. You can buy me a beer afterward