Notable change in 17.34 (folding mirror routines)

[scottm]

Tesla sure likes to dick around with convenience features to make them less convenient for many.

Boils down to incomplete thinking and incomplete design.

This thread and whole topic goes away if Tesla had done it once correctly, up front, in the first place...

"automatic mirrors" have 2 phases with many options:
"automatic mirror folding" slider option: never, fold on Park, fold on exiting, fold on lock
"automatic mirror unfolding" slider: never, unfold on approach, unfold on unlock, unfold leaving Park

Respect the boss: If you manually fold mirrors using the interior button, they stay folded until you manually unfold them using that button.*

* Or legal mandate says mirrors must be unfolded, at speed.

Done.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I also believe it may be legally problematic for Tesla to continue changing features in this manner, features that behaved a certain way when the vehicle was purchased and to which owners have become accustomed. This is more than just a bug fix, it's a complete behavior change that should not be pushed to someone's vehicle without their express permission and knowledge.

 

[scottm]

If Tesla responsibly pushes controls that go with new feature / changed behaviors everything would be fine. Keep it coming! The rule should be: you're allowed to ADD but not subtract user experience, and if you have to subtract there better be a real good reason. Such as "autonomous driving is now illegal in your jurisdiction".

It's just when they do the "irreversible change" stuff people get P.O'd. It comes across as "we know what you want better than you do" attitude, like Apple.

For this one Tesla could say, well you can turn off auto-folding completely if you don't like the new way.

Consider this scenario that seems like a bug, but is really just incomplete thinking and design. This is how mirrors worked on my car, I am driver A, my wife is B. Scenario:

Driver A, fob A, setting "no auto-mirror folding"
Driver B, fob B, setting "auto-mirror folding"

Driver B drives car and parks, mirror fold, leaves the area.
Driver A approaches car, mirrors stay folded, opens door, mirrors stay folded, gets in puts car in Reverse, mirrors stay folded...
Driver A must press interior button to unfold mirrors, and curses under his breath "stupid car".

Here's the weird thing, if she's the person who is next to drive the car then mirrors WILL unfold upon proximity unlocking as she approaches.
Question: Why wouldn't mirrors do that for me?!? (seems like a bug) It's actually an invisible and inaccessible linking of unfolding behavior to auto-mirror folding. And mine is "off" so ... does nothing.

Now, with the latest software change to mirrors, how will this scenario go? I'm about to find out..
Perhaps there's an argument that the new forced unfolding "solves" my scenario.
But it also wrecks / erodes the direction of driver choice and profile linked behavior.

If Tesla put in place user controls suggested in an earlier post it truly SOLVES my scenario and any other scenario anybody can dream up. Because it considers both phases of mirror un/folding and links to profile/fob as separately accessible functions.

Here's how we'd put the settings in my car:

Driver A,
mirror folding slider setting "never" (I find I don't need the function for my parking situations)
mirror unfolding slider setting "unfold leaving Park"

Driver B,
mirror folding slider setting "fold on lock" (or on park, or on exiting..)
mirror unfolding slider setting "unfold leaving Park"

Tesla could STILL do a forced auto-unfold at 10 MPH, and deny folding at-speed, and whatever legal driving mandates they must meet, and that would not conflict with user preferences for parking situations.

Maybe good designers, producing bad designs.

 

[brkaus]

From all reports it works by giving you the opportunity to get something off your chest and feel good about it, and it gives them the opportunity to toss your input in the bit bucket. Win win!

I'm not sure this accurately describes what they do, but I've never heard of anybody seeing anything useful ever come of it.

I've been told on at least one occasion to use the "bug report" feature to capture a problem. I was told that I then should call them back and let them know of the date/time of the report and they will look into it.

I don't believe they actively review the bug reports, unless it is tied to a problem reported via a different method (phone, email, service center visit, etc).

 

[azmodls]

I'm fairly certain that just manually folding the mirrors before stepping out of the vehicle does not keep the mirrors from unfolding on their own later, if you have auto-folding enabled.

Actually, if you fold manually before exiting, they stay folded until you manually unfold even with auto-folding enabled. At least, this worked in my car. Still not a good solution, but could be useful in some situations.

 

[brkaus]

I just manually fold them when needed. Now they pop out at 10mph, so even better.

 

[thecloud]

Actually, if you fold manually before exiting, they stay folded until you manually unfold even with auto-folding enabled. At least, this worked in my car. Still not a good solution, but could be useful in some situations.

This does seem to be the case when I tried it just now. Very good to know!

(Specifically, I enabled auto-folding, manually folded the mirrors, got out, locked the car, left for 5 minutes, re-approached the car, opened the door, got in, and closed the door, all without the mirrors folding out. Haven't tried driving yet to see if they unfold at 10 mph.)

 

[JohnnyG]

I love that we're a creative bunch, and find workarounds! I hate that we have to be a creative bunch and find workarounds!

 

[brkaus]

While that may be true, the Model S is a pretty wide car. If the mirrors were fixed, then you'd simply think, "oh, the car won't fit in that spot," and move on to find another. But with the ability to fold the mirrors, the car actually does fit in a narrow spot.

Here's one example. This is a back-in parking spot with literally less than 3 inches of clearance next to the columns. I can only get into this spot by folding my mirrors. But this particular spot isn't really a problem; there are others where the columns are positioned right next to the mirrors. If the mirrors were to unfold while the car is parked, I'm looking at scraped paint and probably a large repair bill for a broken mirror mechanism.

How would you get out of the car if the mirrors are immediately next to the columns?

I'm assuming in that case, you would have used summon to get the car in that position? And summon to get the car out of the spot?

I haven't tried it. I know summon retracts the mirrors. If the car is parked with summon and the mirrors are retracted, will the also pop out when the key is detected nearby?

 

[thecloud]

How would you get out of the car if the mirrors are immediately next to the columns?

I'm assuming in that case, you would have used summon to get the car in that position? And summon to get the car out of the spot?

Yes, in the case where the driver's side is up against a column, I get out and use summon to finish putting the car into the spot. Usually I try to avoid it by going in the opposite way (head first if I otherwise would have backed in), although getting into a tight spot is always easier when I can use the side mirrors.

It's more common to be close to a column on the passenger side, and have the driver's door free. That's the case that worries me, thinking that one day I'll open the door and the mirrors will fold out on both sides, except one of them won't have any room to do so.

I haven't tried it. I know summon retracts the mirrors. If the car is parked with summon and the mirrors are retracted, will the also pop out when the key is detected nearby?

That is a great question. I'm hoping the answer is always "no" when autofold is disabled. Clearly, the time to test this is before I actually park in one of those spots again.

 

[brkaus]

Yes, in the case where the driver's side is up against a column, I get out and use summon to finish putting the car into the spot. Usually I try to avoid it by going in the opposite way (head first if I otherwise would have backed in), although getting into a tight spot is always easier when I can use the side mirrors.

It's more common to be close to a column on the passenger side, and have the driver's door free. That's the case that worries me, thinking that one day I'll open the door and the mirrors will fold out on both sides, except one of them won't have any room to do so.


That is a great question. I'm hoping the answer is always "no" when autofold is disabled. Clearly, the time to test this is before I actually park in one of those spots again.

Thanks. Good point on passenger door.

With auto fold disabled, I’ve only seen it open at 10mph it the button.

 

[GazUK67]

After 17.34 update, if you have a model X, DON'T run the Xmas easteregg as this completely breaks the folding mirrors with that automatic or manual button. It happened to me and many others on the forum already.

 

[scottm]

New folding still not quite right... I'm seeing a new behavior, it's different, but... still buggy.

It used to be when I went to use car after profile B driver (auto-folding) had left and mirrors were folded, they would just stay folded for me (profile A - no folding setting) until I manually hit the interior button.

Now with new software they unfolded when I approached the car with fob A wow!! That's better.. did this at the same time handles auto-presented. And when I got in the car reconfigured itself for user A. Great!! Except, I have auto-present handles turned OFF in my A profile. So why did they present? (Only profile / fob B is auto-present).

Whatever. So I left the car again, without driving it. And walked away. Mirrors folded. Erm, what? Did a double check and the setting is "no auto-folding for me". So it shouldn't have done that.

I repeated the experiment. Second time, they did not fold after I exited. Must be going mad here.

We're in a quasi state of confidence here... "mirrors do whatever" ... sorta works sometimes. Kinda like it did before, but different.

Tesla should add a 3rd position on slider controls "ON" "OFF" and "WHATEVER" so people can at least move the control to that position and feel things are working fine!

 

[jsimon77]

This is a huge problem for me. I park very close to side wall...I manually fold the mirrors in when I pull in my garage. I have the auto folding mirrors set to "off." Up until this update when I got back in the car they would stay folded until I hit the button again. Now when I go by my car or press the handle to come out..the mirrors come out. THIS caused my passenger side mirror to open up against the wall and scratch it.

I can't seem to figure out how to not do it so the mirrors will not open until I tell it to.

I'm fine with the above 10MPH thing but I can't have them unfold on their own.

Help!

 

[UnknownSoldier]

I DO NOT like the mirrors unfolding when the car unlocks as opposed to when I open the door. Please revert this change, Tesla!

 

[sakimano]

) I've been a passenger in a car when it happened and anybody who travels it regularly has probably seen it once or twice where a side mirror gets hit by an oncoming car that may be a bit too large (...pot meet kettle coming from an S driver...) or a bit too far over the line. Even though it only gains a few inches, folding in the mirrors while driving across these types of bridges can be the difference between "just barely making it" and a broken mirror.

Are the mirrors wider than the hips of the car?

 

[Atebit]

Boils down to incomplete thinking and incomplete design.

That Post-It note fell off of the conference room window and got sucked into the cleaning crew's vacuum cleaner.

That's what passes for "design" these days. As far as incomplete thinking, no need for thinking at all, since you're always just one Continous Improvement away from unhosing whatever you did the last time.

I'm a driver and I want to increase the chances of unwittingly scraping up or amputating my folding mirrors.

 

[Cirrus MS100D]

Are the mirrors wider than the hips of the car?

Oh yeah, those hips don't lie, but the mirrors are still wider. From Tesla's Model S spec page:

• Width 86.2"
  With mirrors folded 77.3"

Model S Specifications

 

[jjh1234]

This is a huge problem for me. I park very close to side wall...I manually fold the mirrors in when I pull in my garage. I have the auto folding mirrors set to "off." Up until this update when I got back in the car they would stay folded until I hit the button again. Now when I go by my car or press the handle to come out..the mirrors come out. THIS caused my passenger side mirror to open up against the wall and scratch it.

I can't seem to figure out how to not do it so the mirrors will not open until I tell it to.

I'm fine with the above 10MPH thing but I can't have them unfold on their own.

Help!

Have you double checked to see that you still have auto folding mirrors off? I just tested this scenario on my vehicle and I couldn't get the mirrors to auto-unfold no matter what I did. I locked and unlocked with button on remote, left and approached car and put the car in drive and reverse and they stayed folded the whole time. I have software 2017.34 2448cfc

 

[scottm]

This is a huge problem for me. I park very close to side wall...I manually fold the mirrors in when I pull in my garage. I have the auto folding mirrors set to "off." Up until this update when I got back in the car they would stay folded until I hit the button again. Now when I go by my car or press the handle to come out..the mirrors come out.

Exactly, Tesla did not follow the "respect the boss" rule (see earlier post). If Tesla would just implement what's said in that posting, all mirror problems would go away.

They followed the "Apple" rule of thinking they know better than you what you want.