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Now Kia are doing it
- Thread starter pdk42
- Start date
Sparkeur
Member
Answer: A self-charging hybrid is a big mistake that needs serious marketing until it can be quietly discontinued.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
The reason I vowed never, ever, to buy another Toyota, despite having owned Toyotas for around 18 years in total, was solely because of their self-charging hybrid crap. It got the point where, after a few months of seeing these adverts all the time, I was actually ashamed to be driving one of these things, so sold it and bought an i3. The i3 wasn't ideal, by any means, but at least it wasn't being sold with a massive dose of complete bullshit.
In Toyota's case, I think they are trying to cover up for the fact that they are probably one of the only major motor manufacturers that are not investing in EVs. They've been effectively caught with their trousers down by all the other manufacturers that have managed to bring EVs to market, and are trying to make out that their antique ICE technology is somehow "better", when it clearly is just an ICE car pretending to be something else.
In Toyota's case, I think they are trying to cover up for the fact that they are probably one of the only major motor manufacturers that are not investing in EVs. They've been effectively caught with their trousers down by all the other manufacturers that have managed to bring EVs to market, and are trying to make out that their antique ICE technology is somehow "better", when it clearly is just an ICE car pretending to be something else.
Looks like as good a place as any for this...fyi the guy was fully aware of the BS claims by Toyota and was making a point...
I actually saw someone post a response to a Mercedes Facebook ad for the PHEV A-Class saying "pity it's not self-charging"!
On the same thread there were a bunch of even more stupid posts complaining that 45 miles range "wouldn't be enough to get to work", or "what are you going to do when you're stuck in a jam on the motorway?". Sometimes I can't believe how uninformed people can be (or, more precisely, how such uninformed people can think it's good to advertise their ignorance on social media!).
On the same thread there were a bunch of even more stupid posts complaining that 45 miles range "wouldn't be enough to get to work", or "what are you going to do when you're stuck in a jam on the motorway?". Sometimes I can't believe how uninformed people can be (or, more precisely, how such uninformed people can think it's good to advertise their ignorance on social media!).
Tiger
Active Member
MrBadger
Badger out
I cannot believe the Toyota Yaris Hybrid "Why Stop" adverts solution to being stuck in a massive traffic jam in the middle of a big city is to turn on the engine and charge your car - is the whole no emissions at the tailpipe issue totally lost on them?
Drew57
Active ember
Kia "remarkable fuel economy ....lower emissions"?
My last company car before retirement was a Toyota Auris PHEV & I was once stuck in traffic in Dublin for 2 hours. The engine ran constantly to replenish the ~1m range batteries & I recall economy for that trip being around 32mpg with the car averaging mid 50s overall vs the rated ~70. Motorway journeys were appalling.
Allegedly the car would start using battery power then switch over to petrol at around 20mph but this was impossible unless you drove like a sloth ....absolutely useless & a con for both economy & emissions.
My last company car before retirement was a Toyota Auris PHEV & I was once stuck in traffic in Dublin for 2 hours. The engine ran constantly to replenish the ~1m range batteries & I recall economy for that trip being around 32mpg with the car averaging mid 50s overall vs the rated ~70. Motorway journeys were appalling.
Allegedly the car would start using battery power then switch over to petrol at around 20mph but this was impossible unless you drove like a sloth ....absolutely useless & a con for both economy & emissions.
It's completely wrong and that was my view long before I became a EV / Tesla owner.
@Drew57 Your example is just one of many that appears so poorly thought out it's almost hard to believe. Bloke at work has the Outlander phev, and to be fair to him he plugs it in all the time but even then the combined fuel economy was horrible.
The tax incentives need to go on all that crap and adverts like these are totally deceiving to the average motorist
@Drew57 Your example is just one of many that appears so poorly thought out it's almost hard to believe. Bloke at work has the Outlander phev, and to be fair to him he plugs it in all the time but even then the combined fuel economy was horrible.
The tax incentives need to go on all that crap and adverts like these are totally deceiving to the average motorist
I think these ads were banned in Norway...sure I read that somewhere but the UK advertising standards people said it was fine...idiots
LongRanger
Active Member
Would be interested to know detailed sales figures breakdown for last 12 months across all models (down to model variation) for all vehicles that have a battery drive element.
So it's got a generator on-board that is powered by Petrol. This makes it a self-contained unit that can charge itself.
Gotcha.
Out of interest I wonder how many BEV owners know what their out-board generator is powered by. No doubt there will be some utilising their solar PV array which can be sketchy to use sometimes, especially at night. Then there will be some using the renewable (claiming) providers BUT there will also be a heckofalot who simply don't know or care.
Toyota really do seem to have lost the plot or perhaps they know something we don't
Gotcha.
Out of interest I wonder how many BEV owners know what their out-board generator is powered by. No doubt there will be some utilising their solar PV array which can be sketchy to use sometimes, especially at night. Then there will be some using the renewable (claiming) providers BUT there will also be a heckofalot who simply don't know or care.
Toyota really do seem to have lost the plot or perhaps they know something we don't
There is a trace of truth in the advertising, namely that recuperation can charge the battery using energy that would otherwise go to waste through the brakes in non-hybrid cars. I don't mean to say though that the advertising is good or warranted.
The question is, haven't all hybrid cars always done this? I would be very surprised if they hadn't.
The question is, haven't all hybrid cars always done this? I would be very surprised if they hadn't.
phil4
Member
It's on par with Guaranteed Future Market Value in PCP. Where they guarantee that's how much the car will be worth... to them... not you, but sell it in way that makes it seem like bonus to you.
I used to have a non-plug in Prius years ago (2nd Gen one). As mentioned above it'd do 19mph for 1.6 miles on battery if it was fully charged (by the engine or recuperative breaking). But to do that you also had to drive like miss daisy, which would have annoyed far more people than just me (ie. like following a tractor).
The best I ever managed was 72mpg driving from Oxfordshire to the edge on London, but that was ideal condition and usually it was only high 40s mpg wise, ie. nothing special at all.
Currently I don't like hybrids, as they carry all the extra weight and complexity of both a BEV and an ICE with a extra bit of complexity to make them work together. But equally I see they have a placed for people that do a lot of miles, or who charging doesn't work. And lets be honest, if you can't use the Tesla superchargers you're into a world of fun. I'd rather in those instances it was a PHEV, and was charged than not... but in either case, surely if bought and used as it should, it's better for the planet than just going ICE.
Should the tax breaks be so generous, in my view no, but I can still see a place for them at the moment.
But in the same way as my first dig at GFMV in PCP, I think the phrase and adverts are intentionally misleading people... and should be banned. Hybrid or Plug in Hybrid and leave it at that.
I used to have a non-plug in Prius years ago (2nd Gen one). As mentioned above it'd do 19mph for 1.6 miles on battery if it was fully charged (by the engine or recuperative breaking). But to do that you also had to drive like miss daisy, which would have annoyed far more people than just me (ie. like following a tractor).
The best I ever managed was 72mpg driving from Oxfordshire to the edge on London, but that was ideal condition and usually it was only high 40s mpg wise, ie. nothing special at all.
Currently I don't like hybrids, as they carry all the extra weight and complexity of both a BEV and an ICE with a extra bit of complexity to make them work together. But equally I see they have a placed for people that do a lot of miles, or who charging doesn't work. And lets be honest, if you can't use the Tesla superchargers you're into a world of fun. I'd rather in those instances it was a PHEV, and was charged than not... but in either case, surely if bought and used as it should, it's better for the planet than just going ICE.
Should the tax breaks be so generous, in my view no, but I can still see a place for them at the moment.
But in the same way as my first dig at GFMV in PCP, I think the phrase and adverts are intentionally misleading people... and should be banned. Hybrid or Plug in Hybrid and leave it at that.
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Technically it is self charging. A Tesla with a Honda gennie on the back seat would also fit the description. I can also completely understand the norwegians banning it under false advertising.
I test drove a Toyota <somethingorother> hybrid estate and it was quite clever but it's clearly a pretty dismal workaround until they make EVs.
Next stop : Full Self Driving anybody?
I test drove a Toyota <somethingorother> hybrid estate and it was quite clever but it's clearly a pretty dismal workaround until they make EVs.
Next stop : Full Self Driving anybody?
Cnixon
Member
The tax breaks are starting to reduce for non plug in hybrids. My Audi A3 etron was the introduction to EV motoring that lead to a full bev. So they can be good introduction.
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