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Tommy
Member
My stats:
Model S 85 Standard
Manufactured: 11/12
Delivered: 12/05/12
Original Battery replaced late December '12/early January '13 (no paperwork best recollection)
Replacement Battery: "B"
P/N# T12L0002812
Have not Supercharged yet
Model S 85 Standard
Manufactured: 11/12
Delivered: 12/05/12
Original Battery replaced late December '12/early January '13 (no paperwork best recollection)
Replacement Battery: "B"
P/N# T12L0002812
Have not Supercharged yet
This topic started Dec 5. It's now Jan 4 and there were effectively two weeks of holidays during that period--meaning that during that period one or more of the decision makers and critical support staff were not available. I don't think Tesla has had enough time to think through the problem and decide on a course of action. Tesla generally does the right thing, but it's never an "instant fix".
I dunno. When I think about how often I'll use superchargers (when I have my X), vs. how much time I spend on this forum (not just this thread) ... the 15 minutes doesn't look so bad.
Just think of it as 15 minutes to surf the forum that you'd be spending on TMC anyway.
'always a silver lining'
Normally I'd agree, but I don't treat my time equally. 15 extra minutes per stop while I'm road tripping is much more valuable compared to the 15 minutes (or more) that I spend browsing the forum in my free time.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Then you're not looking hard enough. People were complaining about the 60s at superchargers before 120 kW charging even arrived.
Really? I've always been under the impression that my car would charge at a rate proportions to 85kW packs. And I'm thrilled to be able to charge at 105kW, which exceeds what I expected when 120kW was announced. I don't remember seeing much in the way of complaining regarding supercharger rates for 60s.
I probably would be at least somewhat upset my car didn't get any boost when 85s got 120kW, though.
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
I was one of the ones complaining that Tesla made rather generalized, unqualified and exaggerated statements about charging speed on they website. I've sent them a couple of emails but never really got a response. The difference comes from the pack voltage, not capacity. So we get 7/8 (350V/400V).
But after being annoyed about the lack of communication I moved on and now simply enjoy the still insanely fast charging when I'm on road trips.
Edited to add: looking back it's ironic and somewhat embarrassing. Turns out that my car charges faster now than those of some of the early adopters I argued with when I first realized that supercharging performance wasn't as advertised...
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Eggplant
Member
I thought I'd post my battery sticker, since it's a little interesting.
May car is July 2013. I had my battery replaced in November 2013.
I don't have my old battery sticker, but this one is obviously a refirb. It has a new style small sticker, but you can see there was an old style sticker removed and replaced. Battery date appears to be May 2013, which is older than my car. I get great performance out of this battery. 120kw charging, and no real degradation in range.
May car is July 2013. I had my battery replaced in November 2013.
I don't have my old battery sticker, but this one is obviously a refirb. It has a new style small sticker, but you can see there was an old style sticker removed and replaced. Battery date appears to be May 2013, which is older than my car. I get great performance out of this battery. 120kw charging, and no real degradation in range.
I respectfully disagree, Gear. It is a negative in the sense that we thought we had the faster charging (including taper) and found out we don't. That was a negative surprise. I have not said I deserve the faster charging or made ridiculous demands that it should be given to me free.
As a matter of fact charging on the road is generally a negative about my MS, not a positive. Supercharging just helps mitigate that negative. I am allowed to love, hate and not care about various aspects of my car. Recognizing relevant things that are "negative" helps them to improve. Slower is less good in a situation where charge rate while traveling is already the preeminent issue with the car.
I have also gone on record many times saying I would never trade the 17 months I have had with my MS so far. I would not go back and change a thing given the choice to get it later but with faster charging (or less rattles, or even properly torqued suspension parts
).And I completely agree with you that this negative is far outweighed by all of the positives. I never expected to have a viable road trip solution with my MS. I still don't think I do have a very good road trip solution, but I am less patient than some others. That said, if I had to make a road trip in my MS I would not feel upset. Just given a choice (and I do have a choice) I will take the vast advantage in convenience of an ICE.
I expected to drive my MS somewhere between 30-80% of the time when I got it, depending on how everything worked out (remember this was pretty early on). As it stands, I drive it as much as I can, conveniently. That turns out to be at least 95% of the time. And in my normal driving within my local area, the convenience factor goes the other way since charging in my garage when I don't need the car is far superior to going to a gas station.
I still love the car. I still love the company. I don't even find their communication style on this specific topic to be much worse than other car companies but that doesn't mean I like how they communicated it.
Tommy
Member
Replaced by Tesla under warranty due to a firmware fault in the battery causing the car not to operate. The story: Drove fine during the day, plugged the car in at night and awoke to find the "red circle of death" lit on the charging port and an inoperable car. Car flat-bedded to SC and battery replaced after Tesla diagnosis of the cause.
dennis
Model S Plaid
After resending my email to Jerome yesterday, I received the following the following reply at 3 AM this morning (I hope he is on vacation in another time zone):
Dear Dennis:
Thank you for your messages.
I responded to all customers who have contacted me regarding this topic and I would hope that an email from me would be considered as an official communication from Tesla.
As I stated in my messages to the customers who contacted me, for a customer charging from 20% to 90% (more than enough to go to the next supercharger station), the difference in charging time between an early car and a current car is less than 4 minutes! Of course, charging times vary, based on the supercharger load, temperature, etc.
I would like to stress that we did not take anything away from the early customers. As I wrote earlier, the more powerful superchargers were developed after the early cars had been developed. We decided to err on the side of caution and maintain the supercharging rate in the early Model S at their initial 90 kW.
Tesla has continued and will continue to develop improvements for the Model S. We are committed to innovation and to developing and building the best possible cars: while we try to share the benefits of these improvements with all Model S owners (for example, with free firmware updates), the simple truth is that not all improvements can be retrofitted to all prior cars. In particular, as you can imagine, battery technology continues to evolve and it is fair to assume that improvements are implemented every week in battery technology. All our customers and investors expect us to improve and that’s what we do.
Many thanks again and … happy new year! Best regards,
Jerome Guillen
I read that as a definitive "Tesla is not going to anything for owners of the earlier battery packs." Oh, well.
The one lingering question for me is does the data on comparative charging rates collected by owners here support Jerome's statement that "for a customer charging from 20% to 90% ... the difference in charging time between an early car and a current car is less than 4 minutes"? If so, it is hard to argue with their position.
If you've been keeping up with the other '120KW supercharging' thread, they have confirmed through testing and data points that Jerome's statement is accurate and that the time difference here is just about 4-5 minutes. See this post: Finally 120KW Supercharging! - Page 23
dennis
Model S Plaid
Sure it does. The battery chemistry may not improve radically but there are certainly improvements to the thermal management system and other "in total" aspects of the Tesla battery pack.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Would have been informative to have a specific response about some newer cars having older limited packs compared to some other older cars with newer packs. Saying advances are made and can't be retrofitted is one point, saying it's a crap shoot as to what pack you'll get is another.
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