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We've got a definitive answer (again) from Jerome. Nothing will be done.
I'm still very bothered that:
1) Tesla shipped a mix of new and old technology for months without informing customers and charging all the same price.
2) There's still no way to find out what a car officially supports, something that should be publicly available, particularly to support the used car market.
I'd responded to Jerome's original email to me a couple weeks ago and asked about mixed shipments and the used market. He never answered.
I'm still very bothered that:
1) Tesla shipped a mix of new and old technology for months without informing customers and charging all the same price.
2) There's still no way to find out what a car officially supports, something that should be publicly available, particularly to support the used car market.
I'd responded to Jerome's original email to me a couple weeks ago and asked about mixed shipments and the used market. He never answered.
JakeP
S P4996 ==> P02547
Very cool. I wonder if your early VIN got a perf motor and drive inverter? I recall there was speculation at the time if they would just keep making all Perfs after the Sigs for a period of time for manufacturing line consistency and efficiency, and perhaps parts limitations.
arondaniel
Il Sessanta Caricato
So, the 90kW charge limit is on the BATTERY and battery alone. The thread title should read "older Tesla BATTERY PACKS limited...".
The battery in our cars is a consumable. My battery and yours will be replaced someday. In 90 seconds. Hopefully with a 180 kWh version.
Until that day, I for one can live with an extra 4 to 15 minutes to supercharge. Assuming I have an older pack. I don't really care if I do or don't because Supercharging is for road trips.
Also, there will be many many many other Model S improvements to come that you and I will miss out on. C'est la vie.
-Aron
The battery in our cars is a consumable. My battery and yours will be replaced someday. In 90 seconds. Hopefully with a 180 kWh version.
Until that day, I for one can live with an extra 4 to 15 minutes to supercharge. Assuming I have an older pack. I don't really care if I do or don't because Supercharging is for road trips.
Also, there will be many many many other Model S improvements to come that you and I will miss out on. C'est la vie.
-Aron
So, the 90kW charge limit is on the BATTERY and battery alone. The thread title should read "older Tesla BATTERY PACKS limited...".
The battery in our cars is a consumable. My battery and yours will be replaced someday. In 90 seconds. Hopefully with a 180 kWh version.
Until that day, I for one can live with an extra 4 to 15 minutes to supercharge. Assuming I have an older pack. I don't really care if I do or don't because Supercharging is for road trips.
Also, there will be many many many other Model S improvements to come that you and I will miss out on. C'est la vie.
-Aron
Amen. I, and I'd suspect most people, would miss out on very little time between 120kW or 90kW charging. Of that time lost, I gain so much more by being able to drive straight home every day and plug my car in in the garage and never having to take a 10 minute gas station detour a once or twice a week.
I keep thinking about the supposed 4 minute difference that is being touted. I have probably the last 'A' battery doled out. My charging has never gone above 90 kW.
Scenario: Arrive at a charger the same time as another Tesla ('B' version). The SC is a 120 kW and it supplies 2 slots (the only two available). We both connect, and start charging.
So question is - because we are sharing a SC -
Do we each get half of what we are capable of (me 45 kW - they 60 kW)?
Do we each get half of what the SC is capable of (each gets 60kW)?
Do I get half of what I am capable and the other car gets what is left (me 45 kW - they 75 kW)?
How does the 4 minute figure come into play then?
And, do I need to make sure I get 'paired' with another 'A' so that I don't get the low end of the deal?
Scenario: Arrive at a charger the same time as another Tesla ('B' version). The SC is a 120 kW and it supplies 2 slots (the only two available). We both connect, and start charging.
So question is - because we are sharing a SC -
Do we each get half of what we are capable of (me 45 kW - they 60 kW)?
Do we each get half of what the SC is capable of (each gets 60kW)?
Do I get half of what I am capable and the other car gets what is left (me 45 kW - they 75 kW)?
How does the 4 minute figure come into play then?
And, do I need to make sure I get 'paired' with another 'A' so that I don't get the low end of the deal?
arondaniel
Il Sessanta Caricato
Upthread the answer seems to be you get a full 1/2 of the power. Until the point that the SC exceeds 180 kW. Then you top out at 90 and your SC-mate could get more.
Not true..... The first plugged into the pair gets full charge capability. The second plugged in gets the remainder of 120 kw until the first plugged in begins to ramp down. It works well and usually is not much of a delay for anyone.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Older Tesla's limited to 90kW super charging
Not sure if it's that good a system. I posted before that, when I was the second car plugged in into a pair in Hawthorne a couple of weeks ago, I was stuck at 26 kW for what seemed like an interminably-long 15 min before it ramped up to 54 kW. Gained only 110 miles in an hour of charging going to 80-odd % with my 60 pack.
Not sure if it's that good a system. I posted before that, when I was the second car plugged in into a pair in Hawthorne a couple of weeks ago, I was stuck at 26 kW for what seemed like an interminably-long 15 min before it ramped up to 54 kW. Gained only 110 miles in an hour of charging going to 80-odd % with my 60 pack.
How would you propose they do it? At least that way maximizes the output. I think giving priority to the person who got there first is the right way to do it. We have to remember, also, that Hawthorne and Gilroy are kind of the exceptions in that they're always busy, probably mostly because so many locals use them.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Older Tesla's limited to 90kW super charging
Right. Agreed. Don't have any better ideas here. Ran into one other person at Hawthorne - who was headed up the 101 after - who was behind me in line waiting for his turn (with his young daughters sound asleep in the car) and who had no knowledge of this paired stalls business (and, needless to say, is not on these forums). Just a bit wary that, with the rapid increase in MS sales and then those of the MX, this situation is going to get really messy really quickly. This is probably more for the Supercharger Crowding thread probably.
Right. Agreed. Don't have any better ideas here. Ran into one other person at Hawthorne - who was headed up the 101 after - who was behind me in line waiting for his turn (with his young daughters sound asleep in the car) and who had no knowledge of this paired stalls business (and, needless to say, is not on these forums). Just a bit wary that, with the rapid increase in MS sales and then those of the MX, this situation is going to get really messy really quickly. This is probably more for the Supercharger Crowding thread probably.
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
It still kinda sucks that a 60kWh VIN 3,xxx January-2013-manufactured car can charge faster (and at a higher rate) than an 85kWh VIN 9,000 April-2013-manufactured car. I really don't think there's any way to reason/wiggle around that. The second customer clearly paid more for a higher-end model and purchased later. What gives?
I suppose that's true, if they paid the $2000 extra to be able to do so. You still get an unlimited mileage warranty on your battery and a significantly farther range. Likely you'll still charge for the same or less time to make it to the next supercharger even at the 90kW peak versus 105kW peak in the 60.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Ken830, you most certainly have a legitimate gripe, even more so than the 2012 deliveries (who, I still believe, got a very raw deal). It'll sting even more once the 85s start supercharging at 135 kW as the B+ packs should be capable of.
Given that Tesla isn't budging here (unless your battery pack fails at some point), I wonder if you can make a case for reparation in some other form? Maybe, a sizable credit towards battery replacement insurance, pricey accessories or a discount voucher for a future Tesla car?!
Given that Tesla isn't budging here (unless your battery pack fails at some point), I wonder if you can make a case for reparation in some other form? Maybe, a sizable credit towards battery replacement insurance, pricey accessories or a discount voucher for a future Tesla car?!
JakeP
S P4996 ==> P02547
My bad, I saw the S1045 and thought S85, not Sig, when it says P85 right there plain as day. But I think I like the idea of a super-P better, anyway!
Looks like the media has caught wind of the negative side of Tesla's continuous upgrades...
Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA): Do Continuous Updates Mean Disappointment?
Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA): Do Continuous Updates Mean Disappointment?
hans
P631
I get 403 Forbidden error on the link
---update---
Link doesn't work with Tapatalk but it loads fine in a browser.
Last edited:
I clicked on the link and it loads just fine...
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Has anyone tweeted Elon about this situation and asked for his help?
Eggplant
Member
I wonder if anyone with an older car got a upgrade due to battery replacement for other reasons? Does anyone have an example of an A battery replaced with a B or newer battery? Or is Tesla making sure to replace like with like?
I find it pretty interesting, and not all that surprising, that the touted 120kW SC upgrades equate to not a lot of real world difference in charging time. Seems like it helps more with cars sharing circuits rather than a single car charging much faster since there is basically just more capacity per charger to go around. A car won't always use more than 90kW even when capable. I only see >90kW when I'm at a very low SOC, and even when it does it won't stay at that level long before ramping down.
I understand the gripes about communication. It is bad. Tesla is straddling this line between marketing and customer service here. 120kW was highly touted in press and in sales, but when it comes down to supporting old cars they highlight that it's not that big of a deal in most charging scenarios.
But for those looking for a free "fix" ... If the difference in charge rate depends on a revision of the battery design, then I'm not sure what people expect Tesla to do. Replace everyone's battery? For a 4-15 minute difference in supercharging time? Seems impractical.
I find it pretty interesting, and not all that surprising, that the touted 120kW SC upgrades equate to not a lot of real world difference in charging time. Seems like it helps more with cars sharing circuits rather than a single car charging much faster since there is basically just more capacity per charger to go around. A car won't always use more than 90kW even when capable. I only see >90kW when I'm at a very low SOC, and even when it does it won't stay at that level long before ramping down.
I understand the gripes about communication. It is bad. Tesla is straddling this line between marketing and customer service here. 120kW was highly touted in press and in sales, but when it comes down to supporting old cars they highlight that it's not that big of a deal in most charging scenarios.
But for those looking for a free "fix" ... If the difference in charge rate depends on a revision of the battery design, then I'm not sure what people expect Tesla to do. Replace everyone's battery? For a 4-15 minute difference in supercharging time? Seems impractical.
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