You honestly think that Elon isn't aware of this and wasn't involved in crafting the message?
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You honestly think that Elon isn't aware of this and wasn't involved in crafting the message?
Apacheguy,
What does your car charge up to at a full range charge? To compare the taper you really have to compare SOC points, not rated mile points, unless the two cars charge up to the same max charge.
Peter
dennis
Model S Plaid
Yes, because I don't want to accept that he would be so callous to the concerns of some of his earliest and most loyal supporters.
"Wait a minute - what do you mean we have upgraded the battery packs? What do you expect me to do with all these old style packs? I guess we can just intersperse them slowly with the new ones over the next 6 months. No one will notice. Yeah, let's do that! "
SUPRKAR
Member
You read my mind. Elon is most likely the one who drafted the response.
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I don't think he cares. He has no comment on the elimination of the panoramic roof shade or the lighted visor vanity mirrors among other things.
Tesla's track record for doing things openly is not good when a reversal decision is made nothing is announced about it. How about this for an announcement.
After further consideration we are not going to provide a shade for the panoramic roof or give you the lighted visors that George B. made a BIG announcement about. If Tesla is not going to keep their word on small things why do you think they care about large things. The only time they care is if it is in their best interest, at the time, like the lighted visor announcement. Reservation holders were up in arms about the removal of the interior lights as well as a couple of other late changes made at that time and Tesla realized they must act quickly so they told us what we wanted to hear. Very bad track record.
In Q4 of 2012, when they were ramping up production and desperately trying to make the 2012 production goals, remember they were dealing with various parts shortages, and VINs began to be delivered way out of order. We speculated they were "batching" cars based on option configuration and building far ahead in the VIN sequence, with lots of unfinished cars sitting around waiting for parts. I think this period of chaos is when the battery mix-up started, and it was just a production screw-up that there was not a clean cutoff by VIN. But this does not explain why a few old packs trickled out for months, and this is the second screw up. The remaining "A" packs should have been kept in inventory as warranty replacement for the older cars.
I am one of Tesla's most ardent supporters, but something about this really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The battery is the most expensive and most important component of the car, and they failed to roll out a significant update to this component in a logical way. I have lost some enthusiasm for Tesla over this.
SUPRKAR
Member
I once watched a movie, don't remember the name of it. The two actors were talking about a third person and the one actor said "He's the kind of guy that believes you actually get 40,000 miles out of them tires" I did not get it right away but later I understood. I happen to own tires of that type and they were replaced at 27,000. And don't even ask about warranty. Since then I don't kid myself!
That is unfortunate, because this is really ONLY about bad communications. If they had simply said, "all new Model S will be able to charge at 120 kW", no one would be upset. Some people would be happy at their good fortune in getting something they weren't promised. (Well sure some older car owners would still be ticked, but they really wouldn't have a valid reason.)
Jaff
Active Member
Thanks.
In answer to your question regarding the conclusion that there was very little difference in the taper (90%-100%), that was based on wraithnot's graph.
On the plus side wraithnot's data has the advantage that it was comparing the same car. However, the 120 kW data was taken in December and the 90 kW data was taken in July. Perhaps that explains the difference in your graph versus his.
Returning to the discussion of the taper (90%-100%) your graph's data terminates before 200 miles. The taper doesn't start until about 240 miles so its hard to draw any conclusions in this all important area.
Larry
It says something when cinergi lights up.Hi Larry! I'm definitely raw and reactive over this topic so that was probably not my best post
But, while it may be technically accurate, it's not at *all* reflective of my true-world supercharger-to-supercharger road tripping. I have to spend 75 minutes at a supercharger in order to make it to the next. And Tesla can't have it both ways -- either 120 kW is awesome or it's "only 4 minutes" ... I'm mostly miffed at their very dismissive attitude over this whole thing. It's like they've forgotten the customer on this topic. I'm getting close to writing a harsh blog post about it -- though it'll require a lot of time as there are a LOT of facts involved which will require time to put together into a cogent argument.
Hope you're well!
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How about this proposal.
Tesla
Please update the Supercharge page to remove 120 kW entirely. Every comment, every calculation, everything -- list the 90 kW rate and the original taper. "Clearly" 120 kW and the new taper are "insignificant" -- "a mere 4 minutes" -- so why advertise the new rate and taper as something interesting or special?
If you find something worthy enough to advertise, you can't simultaneously tell denied owners that such "worthy" thing is insignificant.
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+ 1Arriving with 20 miles of rated range and charging to 220 or more. I have to do that to comfortably get between the east coast SC's. I consistently arrived with 20 and needed 220+ to get to the next.
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My "real world" numbers are more like 15-20 minutes's difference.
I think the thing most worth noting is all the original promises around how long it would take to charge the car. It was an unqualified 30 minutes for 150-180 miles. While that's a little clearer on the website now, most of the sales staff still doesn't get it and is *amazed* when I tell them what it's really like to use the SC. And all of this is assuming you aren't load-sharing with another car (at which point kiss everything goodbye 'cuz now you're gonna wait for 2 hours).
Tesla is taking reality and twisting it in major ways for marketing purposes and it's getting really old. That includes the 300 mile range they keep telling everyone in the showrooms.
(BTW I'm not ignorant at the relative impact of the SC technology in the market, the amazing car itself, the fact that SC'ing is free, etc.)
I really should stop posting before I get myself into trouble
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Wrong. Originally advertised - the primary point of the loaner program is to provide loaners to customers while their cars are being serviced. This is why "loaner" is in the name the program. Secondary purpose is building excitement among owners, enticing them to swap/upgrade. Third is enticing new owners. Note that the 3rd wasn't even included in the original announcement, but rather became part of policy behind the scenes.
I disagree completely. As an example, I don't Trip charge my car. Period. My range/trip charge count is zero. Has been for the life of the car.
Your requested data would be completely irrelevant to me.
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Do something like this would be, frankly, inspiring. Which, sadly, means it won't happen.
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We must be talking about different tapers, because that's not my experience at all with 90 kW charging. Tapering seems to start as early as like 90 miles rated.
JakeP
S P4996 ==> P02547
Yes, it certainly does.
+1
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+1 again.
"wouldn't have a valid reason"
I always felt that being an early adaptor was risky but that was tempered for me by Tesla's customer focus, over the air updates, prepaid service for "hardware updates", premium brand, etc. etc. I thought Tesla would likely provide an upgrade path (prorated or low cost---not "free") especially for the Sig Model S but I was wrong.
You mean like suspension lowering at freeway speeds? The same thing happened there... they advertised a feature, then took it away, and when everyone screamed Tesla said it doesn't make that much difference anyway. A consistent pattern of behavior appears to be taking shape, and I have every reason to believe it's coming from the top.
Was this on the same battery pack, though? If so, that probably explains the lack of difference in charge rate once the rate starts tapering down.
It's quite likely the pack itself is allowing the same taper - it's just on 120 kW capable hardware that it's able to take advantage of the higher charge rate below 100 rated miles.
(Ignore all this if wraithnot's had his pack swapped out!)
adiggs
Well-Known Member
This observation by AmpedRealtor, and similar observations by others - this is a source of concern for me both as an investor in the company (we have growing evidence that the company is not adequately transparent or customer focused as I believe is important for business success), and as somebody that shares the vision of electrifying personal transportation (where I believe that Tesla is the primary and best change agent to make this happen). I'm a long way from either switching to a production M X reservation, or dropping my reservation, or closing my Tesla position, but it is interesting to me that the first and best source of doubt about the company for me, is coming from the company and not from the people trying to convince me what a bad investment the company is.
If I just listened to those people, I'd be a 100% no-doubt long, as opposed to a 99% no-doubt long (stock and vision).
Brianman,
I'll be honest, I'm not quite sure what you are saying. My request was for data from apacheguy so I'm not sure why the data request would be relevant to you. I wasn't interested in if or how much you range charge. Are you disagreeing that we should be comparing either equivalent capacity batteries, or SOC, when talking about taper curves?
Peter
SUPRKAR
Member
The loaners should only be sold to a current Tesla S owner who has their car in for service and wants to upgrade. I get the feeling they are selling them to anyone who inquires. This is not what was announced when the loaner program was implemented. But then again nothing is as it is announced.
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