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Vger
Active Member
I look forward to seeing the results, but I certainly hope that the charge-off included charge runs from VERY low SOC. This is NOT an unrealistic scenario. Now that the range calculation is much more predictable with 5.9, I just did a 2500 mile road trip from Van to SF with multiple SpC stops below 10 miles RR.
What I would really like to see (from Tesla?) is a graph that show the charge-time difference between 90, 120, (and 135) kW-capable cars as a function of starting SOC.
roblab
Active Member
All of us came in to the Vacaville SC with less than 10%. We charged up to 10% to do a simultaneous start.
But, true, the A pack is slower, if even by a little. And some will never be happy with that. Aside from the fact that I have been accused of having to be happy because I paid a bunch for a car, well, all I can say is some people are happy, and some aren't. It's just their personality.
I simply can't complain, because I'm not that type. No other reason. I just keep driving this car, loving the ability to beat most cars, still get near 100 mpg equivalent, get compliments on the gorgeous shape, get amazement at the technology, wonder at the "free forever" SCs. Still, at a year and a half, it is the best car ever. To me.
I just have a hard time understanding when people get cross and prickly about such an issue as getting on down the road a few minutes sooner, but I guess I don't SC that much: Only about a half dozen times a month. The rest is instantaneously charging while I sleep, which takes me most everywhere.
So, I apologize for being a fan boy. I have driven cheap Toyotas and Hondas, Chevys and Dodges and such like my whole life, and I remember going to those dealers and their service depts., or paying the equivalent of another car at the service stations every dozen years or so. And I'm truly sorry when someone gets kinked about a door handle not working or a pack (The best pack in the world!) being a little bit less than desired. But I will try to curb my enthusiasm.
Hope you all get it worked out!
And if you are unhappy with the efforts we made to get a good charge off, surely there are a couple A packs near where you live, and you can do the test again! I'm not so sure anyone would trust any data Tesla puts out: They certainly don't believe the comment that A packs charge only 4 minutes slower than B packs!
It's all good, as my daughter says.
Beavis
Model S Signature 991
roblob, thanks for the test. I am sure we are all anxiously waiting for the results of the test.
dennis
Model S Plaid
It's simple. When Tesla made the announcement, they did not inform us that several thousand owners would not be able to charge at 120kW.
I use SpCs much less than roblab (a few times every couple of months), but I'm sour about this because:
1. My car does not charge as fast as initially promised even at 90 kW. I usually spend 55-60 minutes at a stop. I never find myself being rushed to get back to my car as others have said. I'm more often than not trying to patiently wait for it to finish up. You can only stop for so many meals before it starts getting late and you just want to get home ASAP.
2. Elon stated in the supercharger announcement that supercharge times would be cut in half. Obviously this built up a lot of hype for 120 kW charging. If you guys are saying that it's not that big of deal you're essentially saying Elon is full of BS.
3. By my calculations, based on empirical data, I spend 15 minutes extra per stop because I ride the bottom half of my battery, just as the cross country team did. If I take the 101 from So Cal to Nor Cal, this works out to 3*15 = 45 minutes extra to reach my destination. I don't know about you, but I'm tired enough driving that long distance and I don't need to be waiting an additional 45 minutes. I just want to get home at that point.
4. Future upgrades. 135 kW is just the first upgrade A packs won't be able to handle. If 6.0 comes loaded with an improved taper + 135 kW charging then the differences will be felt by almost everyone.
Not saying I'm not happy with the car. Totally understand what roblab is saying about waking up with a full charge every morning. I agree completely. Just need a new pack and this car will be perfect!
Looking forward to your blog post.
1. My car does not charge as fast as initially promised even at 90 kW. I usually spend 55-60 minutes at a stop. I never find myself being rushed to get back to my car as others have said. I'm more often than not trying to patiently wait for it to finish up. You can only stop for so many meals before it starts getting late and you just want to get home ASAP.
2. Elon stated in the supercharger announcement that supercharge times would be cut in half. Obviously this built up a lot of hype for 120 kW charging. If you guys are saying that it's not that big of deal you're essentially saying Elon is full of BS.
3. By my calculations, based on empirical data, I spend 15 minutes extra per stop because I ride the bottom half of my battery, just as the cross country team did. If I take the 101 from So Cal to Nor Cal, this works out to 3*15 = 45 minutes extra to reach my destination. I don't know about you, but I'm tired enough driving that long distance and I don't need to be waiting an additional 45 minutes. I just want to get home at that point.
4. Future upgrades. 135 kW is just the first upgrade A packs won't be able to handle. If 6.0 comes loaded with an improved taper + 135 kW charging then the differences will be felt by almost everyone.
Not saying I'm not happy with the car. Totally understand what roblab is saying about waking up with a full charge every morning. I agree completely. Just need a new pack and this car will be perfect!
Looking forward to your blog post.
Owner
Active Member
I am in agreement on this one as I don't really like waiting for the charge. I often don't want to eat near the supercharger. If I wasn't timing the superchargers as often as I have been, I would have not been as relaxed. I think this issue is at the moment separate from 90kW/120kW.
Still waiting for the Tesla response before I can publish the blog and detailed data...soon!
Still waiting for the Tesla response before I can publish the blog and detailed data...soon!
Kraken
Member
funny you should use those numbers.... Very similar to how long I sat at a supercharger with a couple of new friends the other day. We all drove away with freshly charged packs.
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not sure how low you need, but from what I saw, it would be very easy to accurately extrapolate the differences to a lesser SOC than we started with.
Currently it would take three full packs to get my car to the nearest Supercharger, a feat I have not yet achieved. My recent charging experience in Montreal had charging back down from 70A to 50A due to the very low voltage at that site (189V @ 70A - it now triggers the FW 5.8 backoff every time). That added over an hour to my charging time, so that feature is now the "anti-Supercharger". Makes your trip slower by one Supercharger full charge.
As much as I'd love to have 120kW, right now I'd be very happy to get the 90 kW!
As much as I'd love to have 120kW, right now I'd be very happy to get the 90 kW!
dennis
Model S Plaid
We have all been conditioned by the lawyerese of your mileage may vary/terms and conditions apply/in rare cases serious complications may occur. In the absence of any such cautions we naturally took Tesla's statements at face value. And they never stated that only a subset of the Model S's would be able to charge at 120kW. Creating expectations and not fulfilling them causes anger and disappointment. That is what happened with the A battery and 120kW supercharging, and that is why some owners are disappointed or angry.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I'm also an "A" pack and am seeing just under 10% degradation at 23,000 miles. Could be my driving/charging style. In the winter, I charge to 90% and arrive home at about 40%. In the summer, I charge to 70% and arrive home also around 40%. I have never had the opportunity to Supercharge yet.
NigelM
Recovering Member
There's plenty of other places where this is being discussed, but I suspect that you've got more out of balance and/or cold effect than actual degradation.
Why would they need to? When Tesla announced parking sensors, it was pretty obvious that thousands of owners would not be able to have parking sensors. When Tesla announced the winter package, thousands of more owners would not be able to get that feature either. So when Tesla announces a new technology or an improvement to an existing technology or feature, why would they need to specifically state who would not be able to use that feature?
I missed the logic on this one, sorry.
It is different because a visible, priced new feature such as those you mention is an obvious product evolution. Different batteries shipped invisibly with no notice on same day to two owners who paid the same and had same bill of sale, different. I'm not part of the doomsday crowd on this, bit it is indisputably different.
Hi Roblab,
Could you share your exact numbers if you don't mind. I've personally seen about 10-12% loss, which is shown as a drop from ~318 miles to ~281 miles Ideal at 100% charge (I've stopped using rated range for this because the latest changes in 5.9 change the numbers and make long term comparisons invalid). This seems to be about inline with "most" other A battery owners I see on the forum. The only B pack that I know of that has seen about the same amount of loss has just over 75k miles on his car.
Peter
Could you share your exact numbers if you don't mind. I've personally seen about 10-12% loss, which is shown as a drop from ~318 miles to ~281 miles Ideal at 100% charge (I've stopped using rated range for this because the latest changes in 5.9 change the numbers and make long term comparisons invalid). This seems to be about inline with "most" other A battery owners I see on the forum. The only B pack that I know of that has seen about the same amount of loss has just over 75k miles on his car.
Peter
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