Older Teslas limited to 90kW Supercharging

[spdntckt]

[Mod Note: This post and the following conversation were moved here from Decreasing-rated-range]

Good evening all. This is one heck of a informative, yet massive thread! I am hoping to glean from those with much more experience in the matter to understand if I should contact TSLA for some help or not. Last week my car suddenly shut down, and i was stuck in the middle of the road. Upon diagnosis the service center found fault BMS_F080 - which means HV battery fault. They found an internal fuse blew on the pack which is why the car shutdown (sort of an unnerving experience frankly as the car just said 'pull over' and pretty much stopped… no power to get to side of road).

At any rate, the repair was to replace the HV battery with "BATTERY,S3BA,REMAN,CAT1,MODEL S(1038596-01-A)" - which looks like a remanufactured pack.

Herein lies the rub (as they say). I don't range charge often, but i have a 200 mile trip i do ever so often where i range charge so that i don't have to drive like a 'granny'.. My range charges were typically in the 253-255 rated miles category. this weekend i range charged with this new battery for the same trip, and only got 244 miles.

When my car was new i could get 270-272 miles out of a range charge, and 30 miles loss here (with the additional 10 or so from this replacement pack) would mean i am only seemingly getting 88% or so of the original capacity when i rolled it out of the factory (car is a year old, 13k miles).

Should i go back to tsla and cite that this replacement pack is worse than the one i had before? what do you all think?

 

[dennis]

When my car was new i could get 270-272 miles out of a range charge, and 30 miles loss here (with the additional 10 or so from this replacement pack) would mean i am only seemingly getting 88% or so of the original capacity when i rolled it out of the factory (car is a year old, 13k miles).

Should i go back to tsla and cite that this replacement pack is worse than the one i had before? what do you all think?

Absolutely. They gave you a less capable battery as a replacement, and there is no harm in trying to get a better one.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Absolutely. They gave you a less capable battery as a replacement, and there is no harm in trying to get a better one.

Also, that serial number looks suspiciously like an "A" battery pack? If your car is a year old (produced in March 2013?), you should have been in "B" pack territory (there were a couple of exceptions though).

With A packs, your supercharging rate is capped off at 90 kW. There's a whole thread on that.

 

[Gear]

Good evening all. This is one heck of a informative, yet massive thread! I am hoping to glean from those with much more experience in the matter to understand if I should contact TSLA for some help or not. Last week my car suddenly shut down, and i was stuck in the middle of the road. Upon diagnosis the service center found fault BMS_F080 - which means HV battery fault. They found an internal fuse blew on the pack which is why the car shutdown (sort of an unnerving experience frankly as the car just said 'pull over' and pretty much stopped… no power to get to side of road).

At any rate, the repair was to replace the HV battery with "BATTERY,S3BA,REMAN,CAT1,MODEL S(1038596-01-A)" - which looks like a remanufactured pack.

Herein lies the rub (as they say). I don't range charge often, but i have a 200 mile trip i do ever so often where i range charge so that i don't have to drive like a 'granny'.. My range charges were typically in the 253-255 rated miles category. this weekend i range charged with this new battery for the same trip, and only got 244 miles.

When my car was new i could get 270-272 miles out of a range charge, and 30 miles loss here (with the additional 10 or so from this replacement pack) would mean i am only seemingly getting 88% or so of the original capacity when i rolled it out of the factory (car is a year old, 13k miles).

Should i go back to tsla and cite that this replacement pack is worse than the one i had before? what do you all think?

It looks like they gave you an A pack as well. Was your previous pack an A pack? If you don't know, when was your car manufactured? If you had a B pack or higher, the A pack will supercharge more slowly than your old pack, and is additional reason for complaint.

 

[roblab]

It looks like they gave you an A pack as well. Was your previous pack an A pack? If you don't know, when was your car manufactured? If you had a B pack or higher, the A pack will supercharge more slowly than your old pack, and is additional reason for complaint.

To all you A pack haters, I have an A pack, and I wish to say that my degradation after 40,000 miles is about 3%. As to supercharging, which is only a small percentage of charging done on most people's MS, Tesla says it takes about 4 minutes longer to charge from 20% to 80%. I find it takes about 5 minutes longer. When charging at home, my car is instantly full when I wake up every morning, with no drive to the station, which, by the way takes a lot longer than 5 minutes, and which I have NEVER done in a year and a half. Talk about wasted time!

I have never felt that an A pack is *significantly* worse than a B pack, and may be better in some parameters. A few minutes longer being able to finish my french fries is a good thing. You don't get ketchup in the car. Your stress levels drop when you "Let it Go". There is no reason to keep complaining.

Best. Car. Ever.

 

[spdntckt]

Oh.. no. i have supercharged before at 120kw in the original pack (and yes, car was delivered april 2013). i have not tried to supercharge this reman pack yet. i would indeed be annoyed if they did that. when i supercharged at 120kw before it was at the vacaville SC - does the fremont one have 120kw capability? i could head over there and try it… this in indeed concerning!

- - - Updated - - -

re: "best car ever".. yes i would buy the car again, i love it - however I don't have the "i spent so much $ on it so it must be good" fever.. TESLA has work to do. EG.. i have been driving for 26 years and have never had a car just die to the extent were you could not even get it out of an intersection… there are lots of little refinements they need to work on as well. again. love the car, but i don't have binders on and would not say its 'perfect'...

 

[apacheguy]

Yes, thank you roblab for sharing your opinion. But please don't try to downplay the issue with that senseless 5 minute difference quote. It has been disproved a number of times.

 

[roblab]

Yes, thank you roblab for sharing your opinion. But please don't try to downplay the issue with that senseless 5 minute difference quote. It has been disproved a number of times.

Opinion?

Disproved?

My experience: 5 minutes difference. How is that disproof? How is that senseless? Have you charged YOUR car against a B battery, same time, same temp, same percent charge start to finish, and disproved it? Or are you quoting random charging experiences?

Please, give us your proof.

 

[apacheguy]

It's in the other thread - I'll find it later. But where is your proof? I assume you have replicated the above scenario and you have data to back it up. Please show me the 5 min difference.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Oh.. no. i have supercharged before at 120kw in the original pack (and yes, car was delivered april 2013). i have not tried to supercharge this reman pack yet. i would indeed be annoyed if they did that. when i supercharged at 120kw before it was at the vacaville SC - does the fremont one have 120kw capability? i could head over there and try it… this in indeed concerning!

Yes, Fremont's all 120 kW but, you may need to go there kinda' off-hours (not on weekends or evenings when it's really packed) and also when your battery state-of-charge is down to something low enough (say, 15-20 miles) for the full charging rate to be assured.

The contentious timing differences apart, it's just not right that a failed B+ pack is replaced with a refurb A pack (if that's indeed an A pack).

 

[rlang59]

Yes, Fremont's all 120 kW but, you may need to go there kinda' off-hours (not on weekends or evenings when it's really packed) and also when your battery state-of-charge is down to something low enough (say, 15-20 miles) for the full charging rate to be assured.

The contentious timing differences apart, it's just not right that a failed B+ pack is replaced with a refurb A pack (if that's indeed an A pack).

It's a different part number so I'm not sure you can count on the rev A meaning the same thing here.

 

[FlasherZ]

At any rate, the repair was to replace the HV battery with "BATTERY,S3BA,REMAN,CAT1,MODEL S(1038596-01-A)" - which looks like a remanufactured pack.

This is a different part number than anyone has seen in the Battery Table Wiki. As mentioned, you can't compare revisions of this part number with revisions of other part numbers and it's unknown which pack type this maps to.

Can you please turn your wheels to the left, look under the car behind your front passenger wheel and confirm the part numbers listed on the sticker there? I suspect you've got the part number for the battery and not the full assembly (description starts with "ASY,HV BATTERY" on those).

 

[Gear]

The contentious timing differences apart, it's just not right that a failed B+ pack is replaced with a refurb A pack (if that's indeed an A pack).

This was the only point I was trying to make. It looks like I assumed too much from the part number listed, but it's still worth checking. It's not a matter of whether or not the difference is great or small, but whether or not it was replaced with an inferior part, which already seems to be the case since the range decreased with the "new" battery. I wasn't intending to reignite the A battery fire.

 

[joefee]

I wasn't intending to reignite the A battery fire.

When did the "A Pack-gate" fire go out? I'm still smoldering waiting for upgrade announcement from Jerome and So Cal Pack Swap to turn in my A pack (I know, don't hold your breath).

 

[brianman]

I wasn't intending to reignite the A battery fire.

Bad joke. Not a fan. And I'm not even a (significant) stock holder.

 

[Owner]

A few of us did a charge-off last week and I gathered the data. The data is quite interesting and extensive and the Battery A car faired very well.

My upcoming blog post is now in Tesla's hands for official comment and review. They may pull the supercharger records out too.

I don't want to officially comment till I get Tesla's response in order to not create any more problems. I will post it as soon as I get the response on my blog, and also let this forum know.

It's in the other thread - I'll find it later. But where is your proof? I assume you have replicated the above scenario and you have data to back it up. Please show me the 5 min difference.

 

[Gear]

Bad joke. Not a fan. And I'm not even a (significant) stock holder.

It wasn't a joke nor was it meant to be a pun. Lighten up.

 

[brianman]

It wasn't a joke nor was it meant to be a pun. Lighten up.

Intentionally or not, putting the word "fire" near this discussion has only negative value.

 

[JRP3]

Herein lies the rub (as they say). I don't range charge often, but i have a 200 mile trip i do ever so often where i range charge so that i don't have to drive like a 'granny'.. My range charges were typically in the 253-255 rated miles category. this weekend i range charged with this new battery for the same trip, and only got 244 miles.

When my car was new i could get 270-272 miles out of a range charge, and 30 miles loss here (with the additional 10 or so from this replacement pack) would mean i am only seemingly getting 88% or so of the original capacity when i rolled it out of the factory (car is a year old, 13k miles).

The range "loss" may be an out of balance issue, not true capacity loss. Possibly a few range charges and letting it sit plugged in for a while after charging could return some capacity. Better done in cooler weather.

 

[tomas]

The range "loss" may be an out of balance issue, not true capacity loss. Possibly a few range charges and letting it sit plugged in for a while after charging could return some capacity. Better done in cooler weather.

[/FONT]

He just got replacement pack so unlikely that it's out of balance.