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The reality is even with slower charging of x miles on smaller batteries, tesla can overcome this by building enough chargers and more importantly integrating real time data in to the trip planners so that load leveling will be easier and owners will know how long they'll have to wait when they get there by how many other Teslas are in route to that charger. By using this data in real time, they can load level better and suggest which charger to skip (for the larger battery models that can drive farther).
But the cost to build more chargers to overcome slower charging cars that cost less will obviously have an impact on the cost of car to charging infrastructure ratio.
But the cost to build more chargers to overcome slower charging cars that cost less will obviously have an impact on the cost of car to charging infrastructure ratio.
I absolutely concur to this.
After hearing Elon yesterday, I am all but certain supercharging will not be free for Model ≡. There may not be any upfront cost to enable it, but owners will have to pay per charge or per time period. It is going to be one time payment for life. If it was, no way Elon would've left that part out in his speech.
And doubling of SCs was doubling of stations, not locations. A big chunk of doubling will come from expansion of existing locations. Although, I have to say, I still cannot see it happening really. I think Tesla will fall short on this promise.
Autopilot hardware and safety features being free is just like it is on Model S. Hardware is standard, safety features are standard, but you pay for actual "autopilot" features.
Jool
Member
Definitely sounds like the Autopilot hardware and associated safety features come standard, but convenience features like the adaptive cruise and auto steering will probably be a paid upgrade.
As for the supercharging, it sounded like they'll all come with it for free. But it's a long, long time until the Model 3 arrives in any serious numbers, so I can see the supercharger stations expanding quite a bit by then.
As for the supercharging, it sounded like they'll all come with it for free. But it's a long, long time until the Model 3 arrives in any serious numbers, so I can see the supercharger stations expanding quite a bit by then.
You are assuming that the battery size/chemistry will be the same. For all we know with the new battery design they will be able to charge faster than the Model S/X.
No it is fairly clear, even on the Model 3 info page, that Supercharging is included in the $35k base price.
EM made a distinction between AP safety features and AP hardware. He didn't say Supercharging hardware would be standard, he said supercharging would be standard. I took that to mean, that like the Model S and Model X, supercharging would be standard.
I posted this in the other thread, but it might be helpful here too. Here is my transcription from Elon's speech from the supercharging section of the reveal:
Then with respect to supercharging, all Model 3's will come with supercharging, standard.
So, the reason supercharging is very important, as, as many of you know, is that it gives you freedom of travel. OK. It means you can conveniently go where you want, when you want, how you want. And, a lot about having a car, is its about freedom. Its about going where you want to go. And so the superchargers are critical to that. So We are now to the point where we have built out 3600 superchargers worldwide. And about the same number, about the same number of destination chargers. That's present day. By the end of next year, we will double the number of superchargers. And and quadruple the number of destination chargers. So, you will be able to go virtually anywhere. And, in fact, because the onboard charger of the Model S is able to adapt to any country's voltage and amperage, wherever you go in the world, if there is electricity, you can charge.
I just wonder why he gave that very long speech about critical supercharging was and never once mentioned "free for life" or "free" anything for that matter. I think that was carefully worded on purpose, and there will be some sort of fee involved.
Then with respect to supercharging, all Model 3's will come with supercharging, standard.
So, the reason supercharging is very important, as, as many of you know, is that it gives you freedom of travel. OK. It means you can conveniently go where you want, when you want, how you want. And, a lot about having a car, is its about freedom. Its about going where you want to go. And so the superchargers are critical to that. So We are now to the point where we have built out 3600 superchargers worldwide. And about the same number, about the same number of destination chargers. That's present day. By the end of next year, we will double the number of superchargers. And and quadruple the number of destination chargers. So, you will be able to go virtually anywhere. And, in fact, because the onboard charger of the Model S is able to adapt to any country's voltage and amperage, wherever you go in the world, if there is electricity, you can charge.
I just wonder why he gave that very long speech about critical supercharging was and never once mentioned "free for life" or "free" anything for that matter. I think that was carefully worded on purpose, and there will be some sort of fee involved.
Well he didn't say "supercharging capable" or "supercharging equipment" like he did with autopilot. He said "comes with supercharging" so I take that to mean that it's free even if it's only free for an introductory period.
Bruin1996
Member
Maybe Tesla can limit or prevent Supercharging if you are within a 25 mile from your home to prevent the local abuse of Superchargers. Of course, Tesla would have to make exceptions for Tesla owners who don't have their own garage/don't have access to home charging.
I would take it to mean that they haven't really decided yet how they're going to handle this. They considered the wording that Elon used very very carefully. For sure they can't sell a $35,000 car with access to unlimited and unrestricted charging. There will be limits or restrictions that ensure that people don't abuse it. And there will be ways and means where heavy users (even commercial users) can supercharge heavily but pay for it.
Bruin1996
Member
Personally I am not worried about Supercharger acccess or Autopilot as I will gladly pay for both options if they aren't standard. I plan to keep using my Model S or Odyssey minivan (choice depends on how bad Supercharger congestion is after the release of the Model 3) for long distance travel and use the Model 3 for daily commuting and local driving in Southern California.
No where on the page does it say "supercharger capability". It says: "Supercharging, Long distance travel".
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And that is all listed with the $35k base. (There are no optional features listed.)
So not only will it charge slower per mile but at that price point, it will target far more apartment and condo dwellers that don't have access to home charging which will resort in far higher local charging. The Model 3 will be a double whammy to the SC system....more like 3 to 4 times that of a single model S.
I had an 85 as a loaner and if it charged faster than my 70, it was by a very small margin. That car got 20 more miles on a 90% charge than my car gets on a 90% charge and took at least 20 minutes longer to get to 90%. It might have been a few minutes quicker to my 90% number (217), but not much. It was nice to have a few extra miles though, not to mention that much better top end acceleration. Has anyone figured out what the pack size was in the prototype cars?
They changed the wording on the M3 page. Now says "Supercharging Capable"
This is interesting for a few reasons. First, to see where the future of supercharging goes in general and how it impacts the current owners who early adopted. The expansion of supercharging bays will be great, and I do think Tesla will open many more superchargers as well. Second, if there's this much confusion on the supercharging being capable or included at no-cost, this will confuse Model 3 owners. This is highly significant because to this demographic, cost is likely a big factor if this is their first Tesla or first encounter with the brand. As any one in sales will concur, the experience has to be flawless to get people to switch brands and adopt more EV's. There is not a lot of competition in EV sales yet, but the operative word is yet. These Model 3 owners need to receive their vehicles early if not on time, have no confusion about what is included or not, and have their expectations met. Otherwise, if they feel alienated, they will not return and it will diminish some of the brand's value.
I do think Tesla will get it right, just like how they started the event mostly on time yesterday. They realize that people who were ordering Model X might wait an hour to watch a video about a specialty car that is typically in the six figures, but the masses will not wait. They will complain and expect even more free stuff to compensate for not meeting their expectations. Tesla understands this and will devote all the necessary resources to making it flawless.
Remember, no one thought Elon would get this far, from Roadster, to Model S, Model X, and now Model 3 with every barrier possible in manufacturing, infrastructure, and buy-in. There was even a point in early 2013 that Elon himself thought it was time to sell/partner with Google. They know how much is riding on Model 3 for EV adoption as a whole, and for Tesla to be successful and viable for the long term. They will not screw this up.
Just my opinion.
H
I do think Tesla will get it right, just like how they started the event mostly on time yesterday. They realize that people who were ordering Model X might wait an hour to watch a video about a specialty car that is typically in the six figures, but the masses will not wait. They will complain and expect even more free stuff to compensate for not meeting their expectations. Tesla understands this and will devote all the necessary resources to making it flawless.
Remember, no one thought Elon would get this far, from Roadster, to Model S, Model X, and now Model 3 with every barrier possible in manufacturing, infrastructure, and buy-in. There was even a point in early 2013 that Elon himself thought it was time to sell/partner with Google. They know how much is riding on Model 3 for EV adoption as a whole, and for Tesla to be successful and viable for the long term. They will not screw this up.
Just my opinion.
H
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