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Imo not much. It's a bunch of lawyers saying the gov't didn't follow proper protocol. Worst case they force them to follow protocol, just delays things more than anything else.
My understanding is they are asking for it to be reinstated and public allowed to comment?!? There a chance it can be and we may be getting our $14k if ordered before July 11?
Perhaps. That won't affect the long term outcome tho. It's like trump asking the commerce department if autos are a natl security issue; everyone knows they aren't, but these are the steps he's got to follow to implement his policies. Same thing here -- they need public consultation -- they ask ppl what they think, ppl say "bla bla", then at the end he implements his policy.
And frankly from what many have said about the program it's likely the rebates would have been gone by themselves anyhow due to the program exhausting it's allocated revenue regardless. So even if these ppl do force the Ford gov't to rescind it's withdrawal it may be a moot point if there's no money left by the time any new applications are rec'd. I think this is as likely a reason for Tesla being singled out as much as any other reason -- the pool of money shrinks really quickly with thousands of cars @ $14k/ each, vs. say $4k for a few Ford Fusion Energi's or whatever.
On face value, the application for review would appear to have a strong case however for all I know it could also be tossed on some technicality. Hopefully we'll know sooner than later.
Regardless how it turns out, I wouldn't get too excited about EV rebates as it's about the EBR of which the cap and trade program is a subset. The purpose of the application is to have the cancellation of the cap and trade program overturned.
This in itself would have no effect on the cancellation of programs previously funded by cap and trade and therefore the EHVIP program would not necessarily be reinstated.
Even if all this came to fruition, I'm sure Ford would want to put his own spin on how the funds are used. The easy thing to do would simply be starting up all incentives again but that doesn't strike me as something he'd do. In fact, given all the noise we've generated, I could see him deliberately avoiding the routing of any funds to EV's.
Regardless how it turns out, I wouldn't get too excited about EV rebates as it's about the EBR of which the cap and trade program is a subset. The purpose of the application is to have the cancellation of the cap and trade program overturned.
This in itself would have no effect on the cancellation of programs previously funded by cap and trade and therefore the EHVIP program would not necessarily be reinstated.
Even if all this came to fruition, I'm sure Ford would want to put his own spin on how the funds are used. The easy thing to do would simply be starting up all incentives again but that doesn't strike me as something he'd do. In fact, given all the noise we've generated, I could see him deliberately avoiding the routing of any funds to EV's.
It means that the public had a right to provide input to the cancellation of the cap and trade program. The provincial government should have given public a minimum of 30 days for input because it affects us all. They didnt follow the law. The PC’s did respond with lousy excuse that they did provide notice when they were campaigning but it says that is not the process. Bottom line.... it will go to court if they don’t revoke their legislation to cancel the cap and trade program (that’s how I read it)
I agree with you except the Ombudsman is there to address our concerns i.e EV Rebate. This review will help with that issue. The Ombudsman is their to see the unfairness of how it was cancelled but it’s still all part and parcel of the caps program.
Could someone possibly file a court injunction?
One worry I have with the Ombudsman is from their website:
The Ombudsman has no jurisdiction over private companies or individuals, local police, doctors, lawyers, decisions of judges or courts, the Ontario Cabinet, or the federal government.
In an earlier post, I quoted from an article that mentioned:
Mr. Ford’s action is an expensive appeal to his party’s base. It’s worth noting that approximately 60 per cent of Ontarian voters in the last election chose parties that support carbon pricing, so Mr. Ford’s so-called mandate to kill it is on shaky ground.
Yet interestingly, in the application for review of the cancellation of cap and trade, it shows that the rationale the Ontario government made was:
This is because the Minister was of the opinion that the recent Ontario election was a process of public participation that was
substantially equivalent to the process required under the EBR and that the environmentally significant aspects of the
regulation were considered during that process because the government made a clear election platform commitment to end
the cap and trade program.
No, Dougie...the only reason you were elected is because 80% of the people wanted Wynne out. You won the lottery and now your arrogance is hopefully backfiring.
Mr. Ford’s action is an expensive appeal to his party’s base. It’s worth noting that approximately 60 per cent of Ontarian voters in the last election chose parties that support carbon pricing, so Mr. Ford’s so-called mandate to kill it is on shaky ground.
Yet interestingly, in the application for review of the cancellation of cap and trade, it shows that the rationale the Ontario government made was:
This is because the Minister was of the opinion that the recent Ontario election was a process of public participation that was
substantially equivalent to the process required under the EBR and that the environmentally significant aspects of the
regulation were considered during that process because the government made a clear election platform commitment to end
the cap and trade program.
No, Dougie...the only reason you were elected is because 80% of the people wanted Wynne out. You won the lottery and now your arrogance is hopefully backfiring.
I agree but they are still held accountable and even though they are the government they can still be sued. That’s an expensive alternative but I am sure they are going to be seeing lawsuits because of the cap program cancellation and the impact to businesses. I would rather wait and see how the Ombudsman handles our situation first. Remember the media is onto this too.
Agreed! It’s definitely going to backfire on him and where they said their campaign promoted the cancellation of the cap program is part of the EBR process is complete and utter BS!
From the Ombudsman site:
Most complaints are responded to and fully resolved within two weeks or less.
The Ombudsman cannot enforce his recommendations, nor can he overturn decisions. However, most of his recommendations are accepted, and the Ombudsman and staff follow up to ensure they are implemented.
Can the Ombudsman refuse to look into my complaint?
Yes. The Ombudsman can choose not to pursue a complaint based on such factors as whether or not the issue is still current, the complainant is personally affected, alternative remedies exist, the matter involves public policy rather than administrative issues, or the complaint is frivolous or vexatious.
Here's hoping the complaints are deemed valid and can be proceeded on with favorable results!
Most complaints are responded to and fully resolved within two weeks or less.
The Ombudsman cannot enforce his recommendations, nor can he overturn decisions. However, most of his recommendations are accepted, and the Ombudsman and staff follow up to ensure they are implemented.
Can the Ombudsman refuse to look into my complaint?
Yes. The Ombudsman can choose not to pursue a complaint based on such factors as whether or not the issue is still current, the complainant is personally affected, alternative remedies exist, the matter involves public policy rather than administrative issues, or the complaint is frivolous or vexatious.
Here's hoping the complaints are deemed valid and can be proceeded on with favorable results!
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I wish this stuff was going to help but I really can’t see anything working here. Cap and Trade is done in Canada as of right now like it or not. The EHVIP is done and not coming back like it or not. That leaves us with two courses of action.
1. Ontario govt pressured into allowing Tesla same wind down as everyone else. This seems unlikely at this point, there is no large public swell of support for us, 1000 people are screwed and they view it as cost of doing business. I can’t imagine any of these threatened lawsuits or ombudsman will do anything in a realistic timeframe before many of us are forced to cancel reservation.
2. Any action from Tesla, as of now still no formal public acknowledgment. Honestly at this point it feels like they are hoping many of us won’t notice and just continue on even though our vehicles just got 30% more expensive then when we reserved/ordered. Unless they have some great plan up their sleeves I’m getting pissed at lack of communication of any type from Tesla.
So 1 is likely not going to happen, and we have no idea what is happening with 2 because they haven’t officially said anything.
Not looking good folks
1. Ontario govt pressured into allowing Tesla same wind down as everyone else. This seems unlikely at this point, there is no large public swell of support for us, 1000 people are screwed and they view it as cost of doing business. I can’t imagine any of these threatened lawsuits or ombudsman will do anything in a realistic timeframe before many of us are forced to cancel reservation.
2. Any action from Tesla, as of now still no formal public acknowledgment. Honestly at this point it feels like they are hoping many of us won’t notice and just continue on even though our vehicles just got 30% more expensive then when we reserved/ordered. Unless they have some great plan up their sleeves I’m getting pissed at lack of communication of any type from Tesla.
So 1 is likely not going to happen, and we have no idea what is happening with 2 because they haven’t officially said anything.
Not looking good folks
You may be correct. Though I can't help but presume that the Canadian Environmental Law Association wouldn't have applied for a review without there being solid grounds for doing so. They aren't going to risk tarnishing their reputation with frivolous actions.
And as I've pointed out, complaints to the Ombudsman are usually responded to and fully resolved within two weeks or less.
I think Tesla's stance everywhere is the same - that government programs are beyond their control. It's not really their problem. They have been very gracious at the individual level and to me that counts far more.
Agreed that that the clock is ticking for those that don't want to get locked into their order with no ability to receive the rebate.
It may not be looking good but until all options are exhausted, I wouldn't give up hope.
And as I've pointed out, complaints to the Ombudsman are usually responded to and fully resolved within two weeks or less.
I think Tesla's stance everywhere is the same - that government programs are beyond their control. It's not really their problem. They have been very gracious at the individual level and to me that counts far more.
Agreed that that the clock is ticking for those that don't want to get locked into their order with no ability to receive the rebate.
It may not be looking good but until all options are exhausted, I wouldn't give up hope.
Ain't over until the fat lady sings and I cancel RWD and order an AWD
Correct me if I’m wrong the CELA thing is about cap and trade and not necessarily the EHVIP program? So even if they did re instate cap and trade for 30 days that doesn’t mean they would have to reinstate all of the programs associated with cap and trade
You are right but that would give us leverage with the the Ombudsman. Look at the review, it asks for it to be revoked. If it’s revoked then would that not impact the EHVIP program? I agree it’s complicated which is why we need someone who understands the law to guide us in understanding how the issue should be handled. I believe whether the Ombudsman has jurisdiction or not they will definitely be able to tell us what we should do to address the situation. For me, now it’s become a matter of principle. I pay my taxes, I haven’t broken any law, I purchased the car in good faith. It’s the PC’s who have acted in bad faith. We have checks and balances even for the government. Last resort would be a judicial review. Don’t give up hope yet. I believe in our Canadian value of fairness.
Well I picked up my RWD today.... I’m still VERY much hoping for that rebate and that our collective efforts make for a meaningful change to a fair policy. But for those on the fence, believe me when I say it is worth every cent, even without the rebate. For those who can’t afford the LR, if you can hold out for the SR, again, I think it would be worth it. I know we can’t all afford it without the rebate, so again, I hope we can affect some change so you can get the car. It’s hands down the best car Ive ever driven.
Edit: also the delivery experience at the Lawrence location was incredible.
Edit: also the delivery experience at the Lawrence location was incredible.
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