Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[lscalzo]

Just received an email from Wayne Gates office.

Good afternoon Luca,

NDP MPP Chris Glover for Spadina-Fort Spadina rose in Ontario Legislature on Friday to raise your concerns and those of many other across the province. We’ve passed your specific concerns along to him and other members handling this portfolio. I’ve included his comments below:



“The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Lisa Gretzky): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Chris Glover: I just want to speak in response to the comments from the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane. He was talking—and I love the way the member speaks, because it’s real down-home wisdom. It talks about the wisdom of making sure that you don’t make a mistake, and the importance of democratic process and taking this bill to committee so that we have a chance to go through it.


I got a call earlier today from a constituent who ordered a Tesla Model 3 several months ago. He’s taking delivery on Saturday. He was supposed to get a $12,000 rebate from the government on that Tesla, and now the new government is reneging. Where is the confidence that he is supposed to have? When you say “for the people”—he ordered that car in good faith, looking at the economics of that situation and knowing that he wanted to make a contribution to green energy, to our environment, to do his part to slow down climate change. He’s taking delivery of that car on Saturday, and now this government is saying, “Well, yes, we’re the Ontario government, but we are not going to honour the promise that was made by the previous government, and we’re going to put into legislation that we don’t have to honour any of our contracts.”

Then the question will is, what will be the reputation of the Ontario government when Ford is the Premier?”

This is an issue we will continue to pursue. It is simply unfair to residents across Ontario like yourself that were counting on a rebate promised by the previous government.

I’ll pass on any updates as I receive them.

Kindest regards,

 

[betterhaircut]

QQ, do you guys think that nothing will really transpire, if anything at all, until that audit of the books is complete? I have a feeling that DF is waiting to see the damage and then show that these kinds of programs were a determent to our ever-growing debt. I feel like he'd spin it that way. And since the audit will take 5 weeks, that'll likely take us to the September 10 deadline anyway.

I'm currently on the fence as to whether I'll cancel my order or not. I'm really, really holding out hope, as I really need a car and don't feel like purchasing anything else at this point. Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst.

 

[Blu Angel]

I'm really upset that our new Premier, Doug Ford, decided to cancel the EV rebate program
Now hes's gotta find $300 Million dollars to refund the various companies that bought the EV credits"

However, there is still hope...Justin Trudeau and the federal Librrals will surely impose the carbon tax onto
Ontario if it does not comply by January 1, 2019

Is this gonna mean anything: Sign the Petition
Almost at 25k signatures

I signed the petition!!

So... MPPs called/emailed, petition signed, journalists had their field day, rallies in Queen's Park. What's the consensus? What else can we do? We shouldn't give up this fight. It's $14K and for some, this car is simply not a reality without the incentive.

Fellas, do not be so hasty to cancel your Tesla 3 orders.
Most of you probably reserved over 2 years ago.
I know how I feel....all the current ICE vehicles just don't measure up to a BEV vehicle!

I've tapped out waiting for EVIP (*UCK YOU DOUG FORD). After what has transpired over the last few weeks, I just don't see us getting the rebate so I changed my order to the AWD configuration I really wanted.

The car is now ~+-$22,000 more than originally expected but I'll drive this thing into the ground (my existing car is 14 years old and should have been buried long ago).

Went for:

• Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive
• Solid Black Paint
• 19’’ Sport Wheels
• Premium Interior
• Premium Black
• Enhanced Autopilot

Estimated delivery:
Sep.'18 - Nov.'18

Now I just need the 18" Winter tire package and a wall charger.

My only concern is the order date in the vehicle agreement changed from June 23rd to July 23rd so hopefully, Telsa still honours the in-car internet as they told me my order date would stay the same if I changed configurations and I would qualify for it. Perhaps I should call to confirm.

Congrats on your Tesla 3 AWD.
It will surely be a world beater.

Btw, I will recommend Graham Inglish from Bracer EV to install your wall charger.
Great company, great service and great electricians!
I second your salutation to Doug Ford!
EV Car Charger Stations, We Sell & Install Electric Vehicle Chargers - Bracer EV

 

[pcons]

Curious on why someone would disagree with this? It wouldn’t be as bad if the company and founder didn’t literally tweet about everything

I disagreed because tesla had offered a refund to anyone who wants one. You can't expect them to announce that to the world though because then the tesla haters would use that for more fuel to say tesla is failing and everyone is canceling . It's a PR thing. Regarding the length of time to get a refund, I believe it's the same amount of time even with the 1k deposit, so nothing new is there.

I get why people are upset, but it's not Tesla's fault Ford is using this to score cheap political points.

 

[NoBeard]

Funny, we noticed it as interesting that we would get a cheque for a refund on our deposit that was paid by cc instead of a reversal of the cc charge. Tesla is clearly sensitive to any measurement of cancellations because the short sellers will jump on anything to claim victory. BTW... fully intend to reorder our X on Jul 31 when our financing is set.

 

[MP3Mike]

Funny, we noticed it as interesting that we would get a cheque for a refund on our deposit that was paid by cc instead of a reversal of the cc charge.

I seem to recall that the reservation agreement said that refunds requested in the first year would be to the credit card, refunds after that would be done via check. I'm not sure if there is a credit card/merchant bank reason for that or not.

But I know a lot of people don't have the same credit card number a year later, changed accounts/new number because of fraud/etc., so refunding via credit card isn't always that easy.

 

[Abrew2014]

I seem to recall that the reservation agreement said that refunds requested in the first year would be to the credit card, refunds after that would be done via check. I'm not sure if there is a credit card/merchant bank reason for that or not.

But I know a lot of people don't have the same credit card number a year later, changed accounts/new number because of fraud/etc., so refunding via credit card isn't always that easy.

I do find the level of paranoia regarding Tesla frustrating

I don’t care that they are worried about shorts and bulls...I’m a customer who gave them a ton of money and they are clearly fudging around to avoid paying it back in a timely manner

And they aren’t offering refunds from the goodness of their hearts, we would sue for bait and switch if they tried to not allow full refunds when they advertised and promoted the $14,000 rebate as part of the price

 

[Abrew2014]

I disagreed because tesla had offered a refund to anyone who wants one. You can't expect them to announce that to the world though because then the tesla haters would use that for more fuel to say tesla is failing and everyone is canceling . It's a PR thing. Regarding the length of time to get a refund, I believe it's the same amount of time even with the 1k deposit, so nothing new is there.

I get why people are upset, but it's not Tesla's fault Ford is using this to score cheap political points.

You guys are crazy in the defending of Tesla

Communication- can’t communicate a 25% price change to vehicle because it could affect stock price

Regarding length of time...they sucked before so it’s ok they suck now

 

[felixculpas]

While I cancelled, I feel no ill will towards Tesla. My experience in dealing with them in fact has been extremely good.

Your anger is misdirected IMHO. Their web site does have qualifiers about how they can't predict nor are responsible for the administration of government incentives. They didn't cause this. Ford caused this.

I would imagine that while they were in discussions with various people in Ontario, they left the wording on their website up. Perhaps they were hopeful this rather obscure play of words to target them could be reversed.

I think the website was changed when they realized there was nothing they could do to affect any change by the Ford camp.

I don't know what more communication you wanted. I think the jury is out on it having anything to do with them worrying about how it would affect stock prices. Personally I don't buy it but that's just my theory. I'm sure there are many other valid ones out there.

I for one am not defending Tesla so much as feeling there just isn't any wrongdoing on their part in this matter. Allowing refunds even if you have a VIN is really stepping up on their part. I can't imagine going through this with another automaker.

 

[pcons]

I do find the level of paranoia regarding Tesla frustrating

I don’t care that they are worried about shorts and bulls...I’m a customer who gave them a ton of money and they are clearly fudging around to avoid paying it back in a timely manner

And they aren’t offering refunds from the goodness of their hearts, we would sue for bait and switch if they tried to not allow full refunds when they advertised and promoted the $14,000 rebate as part of the price

I know a lot of us are upset about the rebates being lost, but to be honest in court there is no way any lawsuit would hold up. There were disclaimers in the fine print saying that these were rebates from the respective governments and to refer to the specific government pages for further details. And the Ontario rebate page clearly stated that the rebates could be changed with zero notice, which is what Ford did. I'm not defending, I'm just stating the facts as I believe any court would see them.

Emotion can't belong in court, and when you look at the facts, unfortunately there is nothing that can be placed on tesla for blame. The day the announcement came out for the rebate being cancelled, they removed references to the Ontario rebate immediately. So, you cant say they did a bait and switch...they were just as surprised as everyone else regarding how quickly the rebates came to an end.

You guys are crazy in the defending of Tesla

Communication- can’t communicate a 25% price change to vehicle because it could affect stock price

Regarding length of time...they sucked before so it’s ok they suck now

At the end of the day Tesla is a business...any business under the scrutiny they are under would never make a lot of fanfare about how they are offering full rebates in ontario. It would be suicide. Its just a smart business decision....and they didn't have any requirement to 'communicate a 25% price change'. The rebates were never applied by Tesla at point of sale like other dealerships offer. You pay the same price to Tesla regardless of the rebate, so your 25% price change claim once again has nothing to do with Tesla, it has to do with the person we elected....

Look at what VW did with the emissions scandal. They lied and they lied for years to their customer's faces that were paying a premium for 'clean diesel'....which is MUCH worse than Tesla OFFERING refunds when they didn't have to. Imagine VW came out in 2012 and admitted to the cheating on the emissions....that would have been the 'right' thing to do, but no business would ever do something so suicidal. In the VW case, they did go to court because there was evidence of a cover up and misleading customers. Tesla is doing nothing remotely close to that....

 

[McFlurri]

While I cancelled, I feel no ill will towards Tesla. My experience in dealing with them in fact has been extremely good.

Your anger is misdirected IMHO. Their web site does have qualifiers about how they can't predict nor are responsible for the administration of government incentives. They didn't cause this. Ford caused this.

I would imagine that while they were in discussions with various people in Ontario, they left the wording on their website up. Perhaps they were hopeful this rather obscure play of words to target them could be reversed.

I think the website was changed when they realized there was nothing they could do to affect any change by the Ford camp.

I don't know what more communication you wanted. I think the jury is out on it having anything to do with them worrying about how it would affect stock prices. Personally I don't buy it but that's just my theory. I'm sure there are many other valid ones out there.

I for one am not defending Tesla so much as feeling there just isn't any wrongdoing on their part in this matter. Allowing refunds even if you have a VIN is really stepping up on their part. I can't imagine going through this with another automaker.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[NoBeard]

I seem to recall that the reservation agreement said that refunds requested in the first year would be to the credit card, refunds after that would be done via check. I'm not sure if there is a credit card/merchant bank reason for that or not.

But I know a lot of people don't have the same credit card number a year later, changed accounts/new number because of fraud/etc., so refunding via credit card isn't always that easy.

I should have been more clear, my cancellation was within the 3 days of an X order, so a CC reversal would have been the obvious choice. Will be ordering again on the 31st.

 

[Iggy663]

I’ve got to say if nothing happens by end of week I think I’m going to cancel. Would really love the car but can’t justify the extra $14,000.

Gotta admit not in love with Tesla on this process though. Eager to take my money and sell me car saying it costs $14,000 less. But now that it’s cancelled not even a courtesy call/email to explain situation. And if I want my money back then a 2-3 month wait to get it back. Gone in seconds, refunded in months.

I totally agree. I was on hold with them waiting for a rep for over 2.5 hours. The rep took some questions and said he would get back yo me. He wasn't even aware that there is no EV Incentive for Ontario. I was thinking about the S or the X model but now the premium package was made standard adding approximately $4500 to the price of the car. I plan to cancel my model 3 order tomorrow. Just an fyi - I reserved the car over a year and a half ago. Sad ending for sure.

 

[felixculpas]

I totally agree. I was on hold with them waiting for a rep for over 2.5 hours. The rep took some questions and said he would get back yo me. He wasn't even aware that there is no EV Incentive for Ontario. I was thinking about the S or the X model but now the premium package was made standard adding approximately $4500 to the price of the car. I plan to cancel my model 3 order tomorrow. Just an fyi - I reserved the car over a year and a half ago. Sad ending for sure.

Sad ending for sure. FWIW, when I called in my cancellation on the 13th, I expected similar but surprisingly, got through to a guy in Utah in about 30 minutes at around 9:30p EST. I mentioned that apparently there was a memo sent out that morning advising that people from Ontario caught up in their local rebate program cancellation were being allowed to cancel regardless of the state of their order.

He seemed aware and processed my request quickly and with no issues. Overall, great customer service experience.

Very happy about the S/X reduction in price by their inclusion now of PUP. Would suck if you didn't want that but from all I've read, most are happy about this change. Of course I can think of one person here who would disagree with that but then again, they will never actually own a Tesla so there's that

 

[ben1628]

Sad ending for sure. FWIW, when I called in my cancellation on the 13th, I expected similar but surprisingly, got through to a guy in Utah in about 30 minutes at around 9:30p EST. I mentioned that apparently there was a memo sent out that morning advising that people from Ontario caught up in their local rebate program cancellation were being allowed to cancel regardless of the state of their order.

He seemed aware and processed my request quickly and with no issues. Overall, great customer service experience.

Very happy about the S/X reduction in price by their inclusion now of PUP. Would suck if you didn't want that but from all I've read, most are happy about this change. Of course I can think of one person here who would disagree with that but then again, they will never actually own a Tesla so there's that

Can someone points me to this S/X reduction in price, if there is no incentive, Model S may look not much difference in price, and they have nice BIO-Defense mode, sound so nice.

 

[jkirkwood001]

Can someone points me to this S/X reduction in price, if there is no incentive, Model S may look not much difference in price, and they have nice BIO-Defense mode, sound so nice.

Tesla updates Model S and Model X options, makes premium features standard and increases base price

Not reduction, but inclusion of PUP for less than price of base + PUP before.

 

[Samina]

How many of you are planning to cancel? I received a call from the Ombudsman.... they are working on it. Also, if I can get an estimate on number of consumers in this predicament, I’m going to see if we can go the judiciary review (for a class action). I’ll have more info on that tomorrow.

In the meantime it will be helpful to know how many of you are sitting the fence and even if you have got the car, you would otherwise have qualified?

 

[Burlburt]

How many of you are planning to cancel? I received a call from the Ombudsman.... they are working on it. Also, if I can get an estimate on number of consumers in this predicament, I’m going to see if we can go the judiciary review (for a class action). I’ll have more info on that tomorrow.

In the meantime it will be helpful to know how many of you are sitting the fence and even if you have got the car, you would otherwise have qualified?

Yes that’s where I am. I spoke with my rep yesterday and plan to confirm cancellation later today. My car arrived July 15

 

[pcons]

Can someone points me to this S/X reduction in price, if there is no incentive, Model S may look not much difference in price, and they have nice BIO-Defense mode, sound so nice.

Look at a CPO Tesla...I haven't seen any X come up, but there are some S that come and go. Funny thing is that if you see a car go up, it will drop in price by ~ 1.2k/day until it sells...I was considering moving from the 3 to the S, but have now decided to stick with the 3....but to give you an idea: one I was looking at was a 2015 S with ~ 30,000km on it. It had the 19" wheels, sub zero package, EAP (version 1), free supercharging...it started out at 82k, and dropped to 76.2k today and then disappeared...so that's pretty much the same price as a model 3 with AWD + EAP, but its a bigger car that comes with supercharging, and it is presumably available much quicker than a 3.....There are some very informative threads about the CPO process, I would consider it in your situation....

This thread in particular was a good read:

My Very Detailed CPO Buying Experience

 

[Kiyi]

How many of you are planning to cancel? I received a call from the Ombudsman.... they are working on it. Also, if I can get an estimate on number of consumers in this predicament, I’m going to see if we can go the judiciary review (for a class action). I’ll have more info on that tomorrow.

In the meantime it will be helpful to know how many of you are sitting the fence and even if you have got the car, you would otherwise have qualified?

I'm on the fence with cancellation as well. Thanks for the update Samina