Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[sitter_k]

I also received a call from the Ombudsman. I ordered on June 29th. Still awaiting a VIN. I'm planning on buying the car but would join a class action if there is a strong enough case. i'm not sure we would have a case though based off what i've been reading. looks like the Government can do as they please in this case.

The phone agent at the ombudsman office initially told me they don't have any power over government policy and changes, they focus more on ministries but he would take my info and complaint down and consult with his office.

He called me back 45 min later and said that my complaint is something they are looking into and will be asking official questions to the MTO regarding their justification on specifically excluding Tesla. He encouraged me to send comments and complaints to MTO and minister of transport. He asked further questions about when I ordered how much I've paid, what outcome I wished for. I did forget to mention that Tesla is registered as a dealer under Omvic.

 

[Velianou]

If it is implemented for the current tax year any ev deduction or program should apply for all of 2018 you'd think. Also could you just defer delivery or do you go to the back of the line anyways?

Sept 1st is a key date. No double dipping would be allowed. CRA would probably ask for bill of sale(receipt) to be sent in.

Wait and see. also 30 million to fight the federal gov't on GHG emissions. there goes my .10\ltr savings.

 

[Jimmytofu]

I suggest you do a poll - much easier to track numbers. E.g.

After the new Ford government cancelled the EHVIP program, I:

1. Cancelled and purchased an ICE
2. Cancelled and purchased another EV or Hybrid
3. Proceeded with my Tesla order anyway
4. Am awaiting news about rebate and will probably cancel soon
5. Am awaiting news about rebate and will probably proceed soon
6. Am deferring until a less expensive Tesla is available (e.g. SR)

Answer: 3

 

[sitter_k]

Sept 1st is a key date. No double dipping would be allowed. CRA would probably ask for bill of sale(receipt) to be sent in.

Wait and see. also 30 million to fight the federal gov't on GHG emissions. there goes my .10\ltr savings.

Maybe they took it from OHIP Plus.

 

[Jimmytofu]

No idea how things works in Tesla. Why many early reservations still don't get their VIN.
It seems they choose to deliver vehicle that paid by Cash first (same in US).

Tesla Model 3 buyers are feeling Tesla’s new quest for profit

Also paying cash. No VIN yet.

 

[champion1955]

The phone agent at the ombudsman office initially told me they don't have any power over government policy and changes, they focus more on ministries but he would take my info and complaint down and consult with his office.

He called me back 45 min later and said that my complaint is something they are looking into and will be asking official questions to the MTO regarding their justification on specifically excluding Tesla. He encouraged me to send comments and complaints to MTO and minister of transport. He asked further questions about when I ordered how much I've paid, what outcome I wished for. I did forget to mention that Tesla is registered as a dealer under Omvic.

I mentioned to the ombudsman that Tesla is registered as a dealer. Even walked him through the search process where he identified 4 out of 5 current license - if I recall correctly. The dealership I was to pick up my car from was on the list of registered dealerships.

I assume Telsa paid money for this dealership registration. I'd be surprised how this exclusion identifying Tesla as a non-dealer can be legal.

 

[TM888]

I mentioned to the ombudsman that Tesla is registered as a dealer. Even walked him through the search process where he identified 4 out of 5 current license - if I recall correctly. The dealership I was to pick up my car from was on the list of registered dealerships.

I assume Telsa paid money for this dealership registration. I'd be surprised how this exclusion identifying Tesla as a non-dealer can be legal.

Hopefully picking up my model 3 today (they’ve said there’s a problem with the contract generator?! I see people are not being given their car on time. They couldn’t even tell me the exact overall cost in advance), but now I’m concerned there will be a federal rebate. Since I ordered in June I’m hopeful to be grandfathered into that one since I’m sure not going to be in the Ontario one it looks like. I hope the feds announce something this year. Even if I don’t get a rebate, we have to do more to help the environment. They should really look to California as an example.

 

[felixculpas]

Mckenna was just on CBC radio this morning.

Questions were asked regarding Ontario and no carbon emissions program.

Sept 1st is deadline for provinces to institute a carbon reduction plan that is in line with the Federal Government.

If Ontario doesn't have a plan then the federal government will impose one federally. Monies raised through this plan will be giving back to Ontario residents. She eluded to incentives for businesses and residents. innovation for businesses. I believe that we will have a federal incentive program that will be part of our yearly tax returns. (Like the US does). No dollar value mentioned. I will cancel and wait for a federal incentive program, if nothing occurs with the EHVIP. This may be implemented prior to Dec 31st for the current tax year.

Here's that CBC radio spot.

 

[Kikkoman]

Here's that CBC radio spot.

Cathrine says that they're gonna put money directly back into Ontarian's pocket for going green. Maybe we should reach out to her to let her know of our situation.

 

[Velianou]

Cathrine says that they're gonna put money directly back into Ontarian's pocket for going green. Maybe we should reach out to her to let her know of our situation.

I already have. No response yet. probably doesn't want to say anything until Sept 1st.

 

[felixculpas]

I mentioned to the ombudsman that Tesla is registered as a dealer. Even walked him through the search process where he identified 4 out of 5 current license - if I recall correctly. The dealership I was to pick up my car from was on the list of registered dealerships.

I assume Telsa paid money for this dealership registration. I'd be surprised how this exclusion identifying Tesla as a non-dealer can be legal.

I also mentioned that Tesla was a registered dealer in Ontario and they employed people just like dealerships do and there had never been a differentiation for Tesla prior in the administration of EHVIP.

 

[adaptabl]

The economics of Model 3 vs comparable ICE car = Win for Model 3 (i.e. Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti).

However, compared to a lower cost Honda, Toyota, Hyundai etc. - these lower entry cost ICE cars are more economical until you factor in the pollution factor which is not advertised on the sticker price. Of course, one can argue the battery pack is a source of pollution also but it's housed in a controlled environment and the metals can be recycled and made into a new battery. The carbon and all those other toxic gases are an immediate output into the air we all breathe by these low cost vehicles. Look at China - huge smog problems country wide from cars. They're pushing hard on EVs now as a reactionary move - imagine where'd they'd be if they pushed EVs in the early 2000's.

For me, it's really an ideological purchase - this is my brand. I along with many here want to be eco-friendly and support a cool tech-car-solar-battery-hole drilling-space exploring-Mars colonizing company. Those are my justification to vote with the available free capital at my disposal .

Also, time saved ... going to the gas station every week in and out probably 5-15minutes depending on the lines.. that'll add up real quick. I cannot reduce my commute times, however I can eliminate the trips to the gas station + service center for oil changes.

Also, if FSD ever becomes a thing... Imagine the commute to anywhere... Enter a destination, take a nap, get a chime and wake up to whatever it is you're doing! Awesome! (This will likely be in one of them boring tunnels).

Actually the biggest source of air pollution in China is coal fired electricity plants. Zero tail pipe emissions does not always equal zero emissions. They also have many cars that have almost no air pollution controls.

 

[felixculpas]

I already have. No response yet. probably doesn't want to say anything until Sept 1st.

I've sent a few messages her way. I have a feeling you are right. They aren't going to play any cards till it's necessary.

McKenna was throwing out all the cliches that's for sure.

"We didn't get out of the stone age because we ran out of stones". I wish she would stop saying that.

 

[ZooSean]

Actually the biggest source of air pollution in China is coal fired electricity plants. Zero tail pipe emissions does not always equal zero emissions. They also have many cars that have almost no air pollution controls.

You are living in a place which coal plants are eliminated decades ago. So driving an EV shall be much greener than driving an ICE.

Talking about China, the argument will be central controlled pollution emissions solutions (eg coral electricity plant) vs distributed pollution emission model (eg car emissions). The latter shall be much more difficult to control. That’s why Chinese government still spends billions money promoting EV and plugins.

 

[adaptabl]

The phone agent at the ombudsman office initially told me they don't have any power over government policy and changes, they focus more on ministries but he would take my info and complaint down and consult with his office.

He called me back 45 min later and said that my complaint is something they are looking into and will be asking official questions to the MTO regarding their justification on specifically excluding Tesla. He encouraged me to send comments and complaints to MTO and minister of transport. He asked further questions about when I ordered how much I've paid, what outcome I wished for. I did forget to mention that Tesla is registered as a dealer under Omvic.

But you didn't order thru a Tesla dealer you ordered directly with Tesla. You may of used their computer but did not order from the Tesla dealer. The information from the government is very clear on this.

 

[Techniques]

Cathrine says that they're gonna put money directly back into Ontarian's pocket for going green. Maybe we should reach out to her to let her know of our situation.

Let’s go Tax credits “clap, clap, clap, clap, clap”....Let’s go Tax credits “clap, clap, clap, clap, clap”....

 

[dusdev]

Doug Ford's restriction on the EVIP rebate grandfather requirements is as arbitrary as saying "Only applicable if you ordered on a Tuesday afternoon and you have brown hair". There is no basis for excluding one manufacturer versus another, except for being vindictive - both towards Tesla as a company and the buyers as being some sort of enemy. Sadly the opposite is likely the case. Buyers want a better environment in Ontario, for all citizens. And Tesla has been making meaningful progress in building out EV infrastructure, which I can only imagine will now slow down.

Ontario could have also been a future home to EV manufacturing. Too bad the PC's couldn't have embraced this inevitable change instead of trying to artificially suppress is. They will succeed in slowing down adoption which means, when EVs are the majority, Ontario will be lagging in terms of infrastructure.

 

[Velianou]

Ombudsman's Office just called me. Asked me a few questions. i reiterated that as a consumer why am I being treated different than other consumers regardless of how my purchase agreement was created. Below is a response from Christine Hogarth's office. I read this to the Ombudsman's office and explained that her answer depicts treating all Ontario taxpayers with fairness. This is not how I am being treated by this decision not to include Tesla. Also i mentioned that if the Ontario government has an issue with Tesla's business model then this is between them. Do not use the consumer.

Also Ombudsman's office gave me an email for all EHVIP complaints regarding this situation. [email protected]

please send emails to this address as well.

Good morning Kevin,

Thanks very much for your patience while we received direction on this from the Ministry.

As the Electric and Hydrogen Vehicle Incentive Program was funded through cap-and-trade proceeds, it has been cancelled with an orderly wind-down. All vehicles that were delivered, registered and plated by July 11 will have the incentive honoured, provided the paperwork is submitted within 60 days of registration and plating. This approach is designed to provide fairness for all Ontario taxpayers, while minimizing the impact on consumers who have received and plated their cars, as well as dealerships, which generally tend to be small businesses in our communities, with orders on the way.

I hope this helps explain the situation, and I apologize that I cannot be of more help at this time.

All the best,

Stephen Warner | Constituency Assistant
Office of Christine Hogarth, MPP
933 The Queensway, Etobicoke
Toronto, ON. M8Z 1P3
Telephone: 416-259-2249
Fax: 416-259-3704

 

[Switzch]

Also Ombudsman's office gave me an email for all EHVIP complaints regarding this situation. [email protected]

I wrote them with this email (taken and modified from previous posters)

To whom it concerns,

I am impacted by the Ontario Government decision to cancel the EHVIP program. I was given this email to contact;

As I am sure you are aware, the MTO recently cancelled the EHVIP program. My complaint is not that the program was cancelled, rather, how it was cancelled. This is because I have put down a non refundable $4200 deposit for a Tesla model 3 car AND have purchased and installed a charger at a cost of over $1000. Due the the wording of the EHVIP cancellation, I am currently not eligible for the EHVIP rebate even though consumers who purchased a car from a dealer (ford, gm, mercedez, bmw, ect) on the same day as me are still eligible until Sept 10th. From a consumer standpoint, I don't see the difference between ordering from a dealer vs. a manufacturer especially when buying a product in the online space.

Background: On July 11th, Premier Ford’s team announced the immediate cancellation of the program. The only way to still qualify for the rebate would be if one satisfied one of the following two conditions:

1) Eligible vehicles that have been delivered to consumers, registered, and plated on or before July 11 will receive the incentive.

2) Inventory that dealers have on lots or orders made by dealerships with manufacturers on or before July 11, will also be honoured for the incentive provided that the vehicle is delivered to consumers, registered, and plated by September 10.

Although this gives dealers a ‘wind-down’ period, it offers no such consideration to consumers like myself. I believe this was done specifically to target Tesla buyers as purchases are made on a website directly from the manufacturer. It should also be noted that Tesla does have 4 dealerships in Ontario and I have been charged a nominal dealer fee on my order deposit.

The $14k rebate is the difference between affordability and non-affordability. Many of us have ordered this car in good faith, placing a $4,200 non-refundable deposit. We now face a no-win scenario; either cancel our orders and lose $4,200 plus the cost of the charger and installation, or commit to buying a car that we can no longer afford.

All I am asking is that Premier Ford extend to us, his constituents, the same consideration he is offering to businesses (i.e. the dealers); honour those orders that were placed prior to July 11th providing the vehicle is delivered, registered, and plated by September 10th. As it stands, it seems as though Premier Ford is intentionally targeting Tesla, but is really only hurting his people.​

 

[Burlburt]

Ombudsman's Office just called me. Asked me a few questions. i reiterated that as a consumer why am I being treated different than other consumers regardless of how my purchase agreement was created. Below is a response from Christine Hogarth's office. I read this to the Ombudsman's office and explained that her answer depicts treating all Ontario taxpayers with fairness. This is not how I am being treated by this decision not to include Tesla. Also i mentioned that if the Ontario government has an issue with Tesla's business model then this is between them. Do not use the consumer.

Also Ombudsman's office gave me an email for all EHVIP complaints regarding this situation. [email protected]

please send emails to this address as well.

Good morning Kevin,

Thanks very much for your patience while we received direction on this from the Ministry.

As the Electric and Hydrogen Vehicle Incentive Program was funded through cap-and-trade proceeds, it has been cancelled with an orderly wind-down. All vehicles that were delivered, registered and plated by July 11 will have the incentive honoured, provided the paperwork is submitted within 60 days of registration and plating. This approach is designed to provide fairness for all Ontario taxpayers, while minimizing the impact on consumers who have received and plated their cars, as well as dealerships, which generally tend to be small businesses in our communities, with orders on the way.

I hope this helps explain the situation, and I apologize that I cannot be of more help at this time.

All the best,

Stephen Warner | Constituency Assistant
Office of Christine Hogarth, MPP
933 The Queensway, Etobicoke
Toronto, ON. M8Z 1P3
Telephone: 416-259-2249
Fax: 416-259-3704

I encourage everyone to send copies of any Government correspondence to Greg Keenan [email protected] at the Globe. I believe the Globe does not want to drop this story and, with sufficient information, will make this targeted discrimination more publicly known.

All Ontarians deserve to know how this government is ready, willing able and motivated to be discriminator in its policies and behaviors