P3D+ misc info and pics- wheel weight, calipers, suspension

[Daniel in SD]

I highly suggest never to go “lug centric”. It will create vibrations and other issues down the line.

I believe Tesla wheels are lug centric though. That's why the lug nuts and wheels are tapered, to center the wheel. The fact that people use plastic hub centric rings and they don't deform tells me that the they're not carrying any weight.
This does sound like an opportunity for a vendor to make hub centric rings with the notch in them for the P.

 

[FlyNavy01]

Did you measure the height of that lip? From your picture, it almost looks like a 3mm spacer would clear it.

Unfortunately I did not, but I would guess the lip is 2-3mm, so a 3mm spacer might work.

 

[jaboki]

I believe Tesla wheels are lug centric though. That's why the lug nuts and wheels are tapered, to center the wheel. The fact that people use plastic hub centric rings and they don't deform tells me that the they're not carrying any weight.
This does sound like an opportunity for a vendor to make hub centric rings with the notch in them for the P.

Actually if you look at the back of the OEM 20” wheel it has the groove/lip to make it hub centric.

Previously posted picture: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/img_5588-jpg.325982/

 

[jaboki]

The stock 20's appear to have a small ring machined around the inner bore of the wheel to account for the lip. I wouldn't drive on any wheels that weren't flush mounted against the wheel hub, so I hope others are aware of this issue before mounting aftermarket wheels to their own Performance Upgrade packages.

Ah, I thought you meant you put the Vorst. back on with no spacers. I knew the OEM ones had the inner bore.

 

[Skione65]

So you have to use a spacer for aftermarket wheels on the Performance Upgrade Package version. That sucks. I hate spacers, I’ve had issues with them in the past.

@jaboki,

I’ve never used them. What issues?

Ski

 

[Skione65]

I went with these 5mm spacers from Amazon. Only $22 for a set of 4 and they seem to fit just fine (see photo below). I'm still running the 20" wheels without the spacers for another few days, but here's a photo of testing fitting them on the front hubs.

5mm is small enough that it shouldn't create any issues while still clearing that small lip. I'll be leaving the hub bolt on since my aftermarket wheels have back-pad pocketing just like the stock wheels, but you should be able to leave it off without issue.
View attachment 325954

@FlyNavy01,

Are these spacers ‘hub centric’? Have you run them yet with the aftermarket 19’s? Let me know how they run.

Ski

 

[timk225]

Here is a bit of good reference information... The Tesla Model 3 Wheel and Tire Guide

The pricing of those T Sportline wheels is ridiculous, and those M3115's are ludicrous. In what world are these prices justified, especially the $4000 set? Absolutely overpriced.

 

[SupersonicP3D]

At least they're consistent...

I plan to measure this, but my driveway isn't the most level reference point. Once I can get the car in the garage (broken door) I'll measure the height.

Went to the service center for a weird squealing issue today and asked about the bolts - they looked and said that they're just mounting points and that it's totally normal.

 

[SupersonicP3D]

The pricing of those T Sportline wheels is ridiculous, and those M3115's are ludicrous. In what world are these prices justified, especially the $4000 set? Absolutely overpriced.

In due time there will be a lot more information about dimensions, what fits, etc., and more components will come out. This is just the price premium you pay for not having to do the research on what will fit on your car.

 

[FlatSix911]

I went with these 5mm spacers from Amazon. Only $22 for a set of 4 and they seem to fit just fine (see photo below). I'm still running the 20" wheels without the spacers for another few days, but here's a photo of testing fitting them on the front hubs. 5mm is small enough that it shouldn't create any issues while still clearing that small lip. I'll be leaving the hub bolt on since my aftermarket wheels have back-pad pocketing just like the stock wheels, but you should be able to leave it off without issue.
View attachment 325954

You just need wheels with a large enough center bore. Hub centric rings aren't strictly necessary, the lug nuts are what center the wheel.

I highly suggest never to go “lug centric”. It will create vibrations and other issues down the line.

​

I would recommend using a hub-centric spacer to ensure a vibration free mount... YMMV

​

 

[jaboki]

@jaboki,

I’ve never used them. What issues?

Ski

I’ve had a set of quality non-eBay non-Amazon, purchased from a known online motorsports store for my Audi S5 fail. They were 5mm spacers that were flat/straight when they started but had just a tad bit of flex to create a gap between wheel and spacer over time. Always used a torque wrench and maybe the heat warped them, who knows. I did end up replacing them with the same version via warranty and never had a problem again. But, to be honest... I prefer never using spacers again after that experience. The “what if’s” go through my mind.

 

[N54TT]

Some aftermarket wheels have center bores with chamfered edges (kinda like the stock 20’s) and may fit without a spacer.
The problem with spacers is that they decrease the hub depth and amount of hub the wheel sits on. Depending on the depth of the stock hub, size of spacer and whether the center bore of the wheel is chamfered.....you could reduce 12mm depth hub to just a few MM....which isn’t enough to support the wheel like it’s meant to...leading to vibrations and safety concerns. In the case here with the model 3 PUP.... with even a 5mm spacer, like the one FLyNavy01 posted, it looks like there is still PLENTY of hub depth left for the wheel to mount on... that there should be no issues.

That being said...finding another wheel to properly fit will require a little extra effort and info.

Anyone have a pic of the rear of the oem 19’s?

 

[FlyNavy01]

Some aftermarket wheels have center bores with chamfered edges (kinda like the stock 20’s) and may fit without a spacer.
The problem with spacers is that they decrease the hub depth and amount of hub the wheel sits on. Depending on the depth of the stock hub, size of spacer and whether the center bore of the wheel is chamfered.....you could reduce 12mm depth hub to just a few MM....which isn’t enough to support the wheel like it’s meant to...leading to vibrations and safety concerns. In the case here with the model 3 PUP.... with even a 5mm spacer, like the one FLyNavy01 posted, it looks like there is still PLENTY of hub depth left for the wheel to mount on... that there should be no issues.

That being said...finding another wheel to properly fit will require a little extra effort and info.

Anyone have a pic of the rear of the oem 19’s?

This is actually a common misconception. The hub only acts as a centering device the when mounting and is not load bearing at all once the lugs are torqued. If you do the math, the Model 3 wheels are pressed against the hub with something like 70,000lbs of force when all 5 lugs are torqued to 129 ft-lbs. The hub doesn't "support" the wheel or any weight. If that were the case, plastic hub centering rings that many people use would fail immediately under the weight of a 4100lb car.

 

[N54TT]

This is actually a common misconception. The hub only acts as a centering device the when mounting and is not load bearing at all once the lugs are torqued. If you do the math, the Model 3 wheels are pressed against the hub with something like 70,000lbs of force when all 5 lugs are torqued to 129 ft-lbs. The hub doesn't "support" the wheel or any weight. If that were the case, plastic hub centering rings that many people use would fail immediately under the weight of a 4100lb car.

Yes and no. The hub does help center the wheel. And While the wheel is mostly supported by the clamping pressure of the bolts.....the hub contributes to strengthen the wheel...and help support the weight and loads generated through the wheel. Can you get by with plastic spacers in typical day to day driving....definitely. I used to be big into autocross and HPDE events.....have seen bolts/lugs sheared off from improper spacers. There are some road courses/events....that won’t even let you pass inspection if you have spacers...never mind plastic spacers.

Think of it like legs/brace of any furniture...chair etc that uses a small wooden dowel and screw to tighten the leg to the frame. The screw provides the clamping force and the dowel acts to strengthen that connection. Can the dowel alone support the weight and forces? Probably not....neither can the screw by itself.

 

[Powered By Jay]

Yes and no. The hub does help center the wheel. And While the wheel is mostly supported by the clamping pressure of the bolts.....the hub contributes to strengthen the wheel...and help support the weight and loads generated through the wheel. Can you get by with plastic spacers in typical day to day driving....definitely. I used to be big into autocross and HPDE events.....have seen bolts/lugs sheared off from improper spacers. There are some road courses/events....that won’t even let you pass inspection if you have spacers...never mind plastic spacers.

He was talking about plastic hub centering rings for when the wheels have a larger bore than the hub. Not plastic spacers.

 

[AWDtsla]

Yes and no. The hub does help center the wheel. And While the wheel is mostly supported by the clamping pressure of the bolts.....the hub contributes to strengthen the wheel...and help support the weight and loads generated through the wheel. Can you get by with plastic spacers in typical day to day driving....definitely. I used to be big into autocross and HPDE events.....have seen bolts/lugs sheared off from improper spacers. There are some road courses/events....that won’t even let you pass inspection if you have spacers...never mind plastic spacers.

Hub centric ring is not a spacer. From an engineering standpoint it's clear why spacers are bad, you are increasing the force applied to the lugs in shear.

 

[N54TT]

This is actually a common misconception. The hub only acts as a centering device the when mounting and is not load bearing at all once the lugs are torqued. If you do the math, the Model 3 wheels are pressed against the hub with something like 70,000lbs of force when all 5 lugs are torqued to 129 ft-lbs. The hub doesn't "support" the wheel or any weight.

He was talking about plastic hub centering rings for when the wheels have a larger bore than the hub. Not plastic spacers.

Hub centric ring is not a spacer. From an engineering standpoint it's clear why spacers are bad, you are increasing the force applied to the lugs in shear.

I was replying to his comment that the hub only acts as centering device and not load bearing at all. And the the hub doesn’t support the wheel or any weight..

My bad....i saw that I wrote plastic spacer instead of plastic centering ring...but my argument still stands lol
Anyhow....back to the topic. Can anyone confirm whether the stock 19’s have the bored out area to accommodate the lip on the hub?

 

[SD_Engnr]

I believe Tesla wheels are lug centric though. That's why the lug nuts and wheels are tapered, to center the wheel. The fact that people use plastic hub centric rings and they don't deform tells me that the they're not carrying any weight.
This does sound like an opportunity for a vendor to make hub centric rings with the notch in them for the P.

I would recommend using a hub-centric spacer to ensure a vibration free mount... YMMV

​

Mini-update:
I'm working with a machine shop to make a custom hub centric ring that fits around the notch on the hub. While this might work for me, it's being made to my wheel spec with an inner bore of 73mm. If the hub on your wheel is specific to Tesla (64.1mm), then your best bet is a 3mm slip on spacer. Might be a week or longer before I get a prototype, but I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[Pandamoanium]

Forgive my lack of contribution, but does anyone know if the Tesla arachnids will fit the Model 3? Specifically a performance version that has the performance upgrade package.

 

[SD_Engnr]

Forgive my lack of contribution, but does anyone know if the Tesla arachnids will fit the Model 3? Specifically a performance version that has the performance upgrade package.

They will not fit because they have a different lug pattern.