Phantom braking (TACC/AP) [Not AEB]

[meavydev]

I guess I've been trained by my i3 MobileEye camera only cruise control, as that would phantom brake on shadows, lorries, bridges, rain, sun...so I cover the accelerator when I think it could happen.
To be fair I've only had it once on a bridge with the M3 and a few times passing lorries in the rain...which was guaranteed on the i3

 

[adsheff]

I know it could be better, but I've learned that on clear, quiet motorways Autopilot is fantastic. Add in traffic, heavy rain/spray and lorries and it's much more jittery. That's just how it is, but on my regular 6 hour trip it is still a game changer. Used to arrive feeling exhausted but now I'm noticeably more relaxed.

 

[Mark-R]

There is (IMHO) a quite interesting video on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/l2goqq/fsdbeta_10_analysis_camera_stitching/

It is looking at an FSDbeta video, but it shows how lorries suddenly appear to 'jump' in front of the car as it passes them. The front camera has the lorry in the correct position. But then the side camera seems to put a 'phantom' lorry in front of the car for a split second - long enough for the car to try to steer around the 'phantom'. I wonder if this, in part, accounts for lorry-related phantom braking on motorways? The person notes that this only appears to happen at relatively slow speeds, but then the speed difference when passing a lorry on a motorway can be quite slow.

 

[Pagemakers]

This is well documented. I have many videos that I’ve creating showing the issue.

I’ve had months of conversation with Tesla engineers about the matter. That have my videos. They called me to visit them last week in Manchester. I went, we reviewed the videos together and notes were made.

 

[MrBadger]

It is looking at an FSDbeta video, but it shows how lorries suddenly appear to 'jump' in front of the car as it passes them.

tl;dr

Is this FSD beta city streets (ie the wireframe visualisations) or regular highways on a FSD beta vehicle which appears to be no different to anyone's FSD highways?

 

[browellm]

This is well documented. I have many videos that I’ve creating showing the issue.

I’ve had months of conversation with Tesla engineers about the matter. That have my videos. They called me to visit them last week in Manchester. I went, we reviewed the videos together and notes were made.

That's very interesting, thanks. Two points come out of this
1) It's great that Tesla are actively working with owners to identify and resolve the issue.
2) It rather contradicts Musk's statement that phantom braking "should be fixed" in the FSD release if they are still in the investigation phase of the causes. You can't really fix something you haven't found the root cause of.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I wonder how many of these issues are pretty much only a problem for RHD cars? I've long felt that there are a host of things that either only seem commonplace on RHD cars, or that are pretty much unique to RHD cars, not least the various display/touchscreen concerns that possibly centre on most RHD owners using their non-dominant hand to try and operate (just this evening it took me a dozen or so goes to try and turn the seat heating off when driving - I almost had to stop in order to do it).

 

[browellm]

Dunno, Bjorn has a lot of phantom braking issues. He's LHD.

Perhaps European style highway and vehicle types contributes more.

 

[M3noob]

I wonder how many of these issues are pretty much only a problem for RHD cars? I've long felt that there are a host of things that either only seem commonplace on RHD cars, or that are pretty much unique to RHD cars, not least the various display/touchscreen concerns that possibly centre on most RHD owners using their non-dominant hand to try and operate (just this evening it took me a dozen or so goes to try and turn the seat heating off when driving - I almost had to stop in order to do it).

How do the RHD Japanese and Antipodeans experience this?

 

[Wol747]

I wonder how many of these issues are pretty much only a problem for RHD cars? I've long felt that there are a host of things that either only seem commonplace on RHD cars, or that are pretty much unique to RHD cars, not least the various display/touchscreen concerns that possibly centre on most RHD owners using their non-dominant hand to try and operate (just this evening it took me a dozen or so goes to try and turn the seat heating off when driving - I almost had to stop in order to do it).

I have banged on about the RHD thing for ages!
Of those of us who are right handed (quite a large majority) I suspect quite a few DO find it difficult - sometimes almost to the point of impossibility - to accurately input even the most basic requests via the screen.
Take the A/C controls - I can't count the number of times I've accessed the temperature settings - a programming nightmare in itself! - and a couple of minutes later find my seat red hot because I've evidently touched the seat heater icon. Not life threatening (perhaps piles threatening?) but indicative of a completely incorrect mindset in car design.
If the car was completely FSD legal and would literally drive you to any destination without driver input then yes: it makes sense to let the now-passenger to play with a touchscreen. But the car is quite definitely NOT FSD - and IMO the current cars never will be - and the touchscreen access to even basic functions is pretty damn dangerous and especially for we dextral drivers.
And please nobody reply "just use the voice recognition"!

 

[M3noob]

I have banged on about the RHD thing for ages!
Of those of us who are right handed (quite a large majority) I suspect quite a few DO find it difficult - sometimes almost to the point of impossibility - to accurately input even the most basic requests via the screen.
Take the A/C controls - I can't count the number of times I've accessed the temperature settings - a programming nightmare in itself! - and a couple of minutes later find my seat red hot because I've evidently touched the seat heater icon. Not life threatening (perhaps piles threatening?) but indicative of a completely incorrect mindset in car design.
If the car was completely FSD legal and would literally drive you to any destination without driver input then yes: it makes sense to let the now-passenger to play with a touchscreen. But the car is quite definitely NOT FSD - and IMO the current cars never will be - and the touchscreen access to even basic functions is pretty damn dangerous and especially for we dextral drivers.
And please nobody reply "just use the voice recognition"!

I have a copilot/navigator attend to those issues. Or, as you suggested, pull over if flying solo.

 

[Wol747]

How do the RHD Japanese and Antipodeans experience this?

As an antipodean Pom I certainly do! (See above post.)
I had probably ten or twelve bug-reportable "incidents" yesterday during a 70Km drive and back to my wife's hospital, including several PBs - one of which was dramatic and which occurred when there was no traffic within half a Km of my car, clear dry visibility, well marked motorway.
I know that reporting a bug goes no further than the car's memory but it makes me feel a little better if someone can go through it if the car ever gets totalled!

 

[Wol747]

I have a copilot/navigator attend to those issues. Or, as you suggested, pull over if flying solo.

Problem is that my copilot - the one in the LHS, BTW! - has been so scared by what the car does (phantom braking, swerving when lane changing etc) that she won't touch the screen - or even allow me to use the TACC or autopilot when she's in the car!

 

[Mark-R]

tl;dr

Is this FSD beta city streets (ie the wireframe visualisations) or regular highways on a FSD beta vehicle which appears to be no different to anyone's FSD highways?

FSD beta city streets with wireframe visualisations.

 

[Cloggie]

I had two very scary phantom braking incidents tonight on the motorway when passing trucks. Outright dangerous, scared my daughter and me properly. The driver behind me wasn't very impressed going by the beeping and gestures.... it was dry and good visibility.

No sure if object avoidance or another setting can 'dumb down' the autopilot and TACC until this is sorted.

 

[M3noob]

Problem is that my copilot - the one in the LHS, BTW! - has been so scared by what the car does (phantom braking, swerving when lane changing etc) that she won't touch the screen - or even allow me to use the TACC or autopilot when she's in the car!

I've felt your pain

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Problem is that my copilot - the one in the LHS, BTW! - has been so scared by what the car does (phantom braking, swerving when lane changing etc) that she won't touch the screen - or even allow me to use the TACC or autopilot when she's in the car!

I'm in exactly the same position. She stopped driving the Tesla after it pulled a few random, and false, braking/swerving/sudden alarm wobblies on her, and now she refuses to let me engage either TACC or AP when she's in the car.

I usually keep cars for around 3 to 5 years, and have only had the Tesla for about 14 months, but she has commented a few times now that the VW ID.3 looks like a nice car and the evening before last asked if I'd thought about getting rid of the Tesla. Despite the fact that there are some great aspects of the car, I am getting truly fed up with all the very irritating shortcomings, and I may well change it some time later this year.

 

[MrBadger]

FSD beta city streets with wireframe visualisations.

View attachment 629766

Thanks. Looks to be the same as this FSD Beta Videos (and questions for FSD Beta drivers) - I had spotted the similarity and commented and yes, its a problem in US FSD Beta Videos (and questions for FSD Beta drivers)

 

[Gasman23]

I wonder how many of these issues are pretty much only a problem for RHD cars? I've long felt that there are a host of things that either only seem commonplace on RHD cars, or that are pretty much unique to RHD cars, not least the various display/touchscreen concerns that possibly centre on most RHD owners using their non-dominant hand to try and operate (just this evening it took me a dozen or so goes to try and turn the seat heating off when driving - I almost had to stop in order to do it).

just anchor your thumb or other fingers on the side of the screen and use a free digit to press the screen. If you still can’t hit the right spot you probably shouldn’t be driving

 

[Glan gluaisne]

just anchor your thumb or other fingers on the side of the screen and use a free digit to press the screen. If you still can’t hit the right spot you probably shouldn’t be driving

Thanks for the insult about my driving ability, very much appreciated.

Try anchoring your left thumb on the side of the screen and reaching across to the seat heating icon. Unless you have fingers that are about 150mm long this just doesn't work.