Phantom Braking

[2101Guy]

Oddly, with 2021.44.30.7 I am seeing less phantom braking (at least with Autosteer). On a street near my house there are some small rises that used to cause the car to slow down. Since the last update those slowdowns have stopped.

Same version

 

[halcyonsc]

For everything else, people post Tesla videos. Why not for this one?

Google is your friend.

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/sj9j80

 

[qdeathstar]

There's no "fix" for the problem though.

It's why every brand has the problem

Every time someone has posted "Well I owned brand X and IT never did phantom braking" it took all of 30 seconds for me to find people complaining of phantom braking on the very brand they insist doesn't do it.


Each company can mitigate the issue to various degrees, but there's no reasonable way to "fix" it- it's inherent to the nature of these types of systems


And as pointed out to you, again with actual available data instead of "This one guy said" anecdotes, Teslas performance is better than many other brands, in this, and basically every other area of actual capability and performance for driver aids and safety.

According to the article, LiDAR fixes the issue…

 

[T4M3]

Google is your friend.

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/sj9j80

Interesting, I would use AP only on the Interstate and not on a single-line traffic like this. Makes sense that the car brakes because of oncoming traffic from the other lane. Am I missing anything?

 

[malevolant]

Interesting, I would use AP only on the Interstate and not on a single-line traffic like this. Makes sense that the car brakes because of oncoming traffic from the other lane. Am I missing anything?

Its not just AP being shown, its also Tesla's version of adaptive cruise control. If its a 50-60mph roadway with minimal traffic, why not use cruise control? How does it make sense that the car would brake for oncoming traffic from the other lane ONLY when its a truck?

 

[2101Guy]

I have had a Toyota Prius rental car with adaptive cruise. I have used their version of TACC for several hundred miles in the same exact roads I drove my Tesla. How many phantom braking events have I had with it? Not a single one. Zero, zip, nada.

If a Prius can do it better than a Model Y, then maybe Tesla shouldn't have rolled out radar less cars until they had vision totally ready to roll.

But to be honest, this isnt the Tesla way. Tesla is very different from car manufacturers who typically will prove a tech first, then roll it out to customers. Tesla literally wants you, the driver/customer, to pay for the "beta" technology(and it has been/will be beta for years and years. Most will sell their cars before it leaves beta) , and you the customer test it out on public highways for Tesla. They dont hide that fact.

 

[halcyonsc]

Interesting, I would use AP only on the Interstate and not on a single-line traffic like this. Makes sense that the car brakes because of oncoming traffic from the other lane. Am I missing anything?

The car hard braking while in cruise control (not AP) is a major issue. Why would the car brake for oncoming traffic in a different lane? That makes no sense and it doesn't happen for all oncoming traffic so it is completely random.

 

[T4M3]

Its not just AP being shown, its also Tesla's version of adaptive cruise control. If its a 50-60mph roadway with minimal traffic, why not use cruise control? How does it make sense that the car would brake for oncoming traffic from the other lane ONLY when its a truck?

Even with the adaptive cruise control I have in my current ICE car, I never use it on a roadway, I use it only on the interstate. On roadways with oncoming traffic and passing through towns there is always the potential that you need to brake instantly so using cruise control there is dangerous to begin with IMO.

 

[Brendazzle]

I have had a Toyota Prius rental car with adaptive cruise. I have used their version of TACC for several hundred miles in the same exact roads I drove my Tesla. How many phantom braking events have I had with it? Not a single one. Zero, zip, nada.

If a Prius can do it better than a Model Y, then maybe Tesla shouldn't have rolled out radar less cars until they had vision totally ready to roll.

That’s my thoughts, Prius has a great TACC system. It’s fantastic, and so is their self parking. For Vision, Tesla needs the data from thousands of events to make it work. They HAVE to roll it out in order to get it right, so they have the data to teach the systeml. So they do! Doesn’t mean they can’t put more focus on that aspect, phantom braking.

 

[malevolant]

Even with the adaptive cruise control I have in my current ICE car, I never use it on a roadway, I use it only on the interstate. On roadways with oncoming traffic and passing through towns there is always the potential that you need to brake instantly so using cruise control there is dangerous to begin with IMO.

The biggest difference between the ICE vehicles and the current gen Teslas most experiencing the phantom braking is the sensing system. In the most recent gen Teslas the radar sensors were removed. Teslas are now relying on solely cameras to detect objects. The radars are significantly better and are proven technology. With time Tesla Vision should get better, but to completely write off the difference right now is asinine.

 

[Xdama]

I’ve never had adaptive cruise on any car (apart from rentals) up to now. Personally for me it’s a complete bust and I’d happily throw it away and have dumb cruise. I don’t rate it in the slightest not on this car nor any of the rentals I’ve had with it fitted …. to the degree that I no longer use cruise control which sucks lol.

 

[DayTrippin]

I get that aspect of Tesla. I don't mind being a beta tester BUT when it comes to safety related features or with a safety impact, I am a lot less tolerant. It was total crap when they first rolled out the TeslaVision. It was a knee jerk reaction and poorly planned out when they had to deal with supply chain issues.

I'll gladly have just a dumb cruise control option and if needed, enable TACC only with AP or Fool Self Driving. I get Tesla's approach to things, I just don't drink the KoolAid. I am an engineer, worked at 2 major car companies, and am more tolerant than many for some design decisions but less so with others.

 

[nvx1977]

Same version

There seems to be an issue with that person's front camera. The distance that the camera can see, based on the visualization is extremely short. Notice how zoomed in the car is, and the lane lines are only drawn out to 1-2 car lengths in front. I only see that level of zoom when I'm stopped at a light.

 

[DeltaOne]

I would use AP only on the Interstate and not on a single-line traffic like this. Makes sense that the car brakes because of oncoming traffic from the other lane. Am I missing anything?

I made this mistake when my Model 3 was new.

An experienced user here pointed out to me that the manual states AP is only to be used on interstates and highways...where all the traffic is going in the same direction and there are no cross streets.

Using AP on a road with opposing traffic and cross streets is dangerous.

 

[Bouba]

There's no "fix" for the problem though.

It's why every brand has the problem

Every time someone has posted "Well I owned brand X and IT never did phantom braking" it took all of 30 seconds for me to find people complaining of phantom braking on the very brand they insist doesn't do it.


Each company can mitigate the issue to various degrees, but there's no reasonable way to "fix" it- it's inherent to the nature of these types of systems


And as pointed out to you, again with actual available data instead of "This one guy said" anecdotes, Teslas performance is better than many other brands, in this, and basically every other area of actual capability and performance for driver aids and safety.

While I agree that ALL brands have trouble and that anecdotal evidence is dangerous....there is one point worth noting, the anecdotal reports are really saying that, ‘on the roads that I drive on...only the Tesla has given me trouble ‘.....

 

[T4M3]

I made this mistake when my Model 3 was new.

An experienced user here pointed out to me that the manual states AP is only to be used on interstates and highways...where all the traffic is going in the same direction and there are no cross streets.

Using AP on a road with opposing traffic and cross streets is dangerous.

Exactly, any variation of cruise control whether it is on Tesla or any other car should be used on the interstate or highway where traffic is flowing in the same direction. Using it on roadways with oncoming traffic is dangerous.

 

[ODWms]

Tesla Is Under NHTSA Scrutiny for 'Phantom Braking' Issues At High Speeds - Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA)

Tesla Inc’s (NASDAQ: TSLA) electric cars are being reviewed by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) for "phantom braking" issues, Bloomberg News

www.benzinga.com

 

[jhstl]

I made this mistake when my Model 3 was new.

An experienced user here pointed out to me that the manual states AP is only to be used on interstates and highways...where all the traffic is going in the same direction and there are no cross streets.

Using AP on a road with opposing traffic and cross streets is dangerous.

I think what is lacking is a simple no-frills cruise control. On all the vehicles I've driven that have adaptive cruise or traffic assist systems, they also have the good old fashioned maintain speed you set cruise control as an option as well. Is this not something offered by Tesla?

 

[Knightshade]

Tesla Is Under NHTSA Scrutiny for 'Phantom Braking' Issues At High Speeds - Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA)

Tesla Inc’s (NASDAQ: TSLA) electric cars are being reviewed by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) for "phantom braking" issues, Bloomberg News

www.benzinga.com

Nonsensical story.

NHTSA gives "scrutiny" to every complaint filed on every brand.

That's the point of the system existing.

It's when the NHTSA finds an actual problem and takes any action it's worth bothering to write up a story on it--- unless your goal is something like driving down the stock price-- then reporting on "scrutiny" and pretending it's unique to Tesla might make sense.

While I agree that ALL brands have trouble and that anecdotal evidence is dangerous....there is one point worth noting, the anecdotal reports are really saying that, ‘on the roads that I drive on...only the Tesla has given me trouble ‘.....

But then you have other folks, in the same places, who say theirs works fine but their previous car didn't do a good job.

And still other folks who claim they had problems in the past but they're better now (with the same car).

Individual humans are terrible measuring devices.

 

[DeltaOne]

I think what is lacking is a simple no-frills cruise control. On all the vehicles I've driven that have adaptive cruise or traffic assist systems, they also have the good old fashioned maintain speed you set cruise control as an option as well. Is this not something offered by Tesla?

I suppose one could turn off emergency braking, lane warnings, etc. Wouldn't that make it an old fashioned speed control?