Awiner
Member
Camber arms are the only way to dial in each side the same and will provide a huge range of adjustment vs static shims.
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Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?
- Thread starter KOL2000
- Start date
I disagree as to "sensitive to this" doesn't mean they are defective.
We're talking about an OEM installed tire that in seemingly every case is literally coming apart at the inner sidewall, a nearly impossible place to notice a tire coming apart.
The Pirelli's mounted on the same Plaids, but with the 19" wheel, have next to zero failures.
Yes, it's a taller sidewall, but the forces are the same, no?
Michelin needs to recall these tires ASAP and get a new tire designed, designed for Tesla's level of acceleration/loads, STAT.
Someone is going to get hurt, eventually.
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Apologies if you’ve posted, what are your rear toe settings?
According to the Tesla Service Center, all settings are at factory spec as they demonstrated to a Michelin Field Engineer. To my knowledge, nothing came of it however as it appears they’re still selling the same tire to Tesla?
Tesla do not set up the cars properly from the factory.
It is very probable that the car is out of spec even before mounting the spacer/shim.
Correct Toe is very important to tyre wear so anyone need to check an S after delivery.
Reducing the high negative camber is not a bad thing, but togheter with a bad alignment (mostly the Toe number) the car still can destroy the tyres.
"within spec" doesn't work. That's how you ended up in this thread to begin with. They only align in the medium setting, and can have a rear toe of 0.05 according to the manual (within spec). Car goes into low setting and 100% you are now in negative toe. Add in dynamic toe on top of the already negative toe, and you're going to be even deeper in the negatives.
And that is:
I have to get an alignment about every 5-6 months no matter what. Just had the summer one done yesterday. People are having difficulty understanding the level of force and stress that occurs on a near-5000 pound car with 1000whp. This is not a Hyundai Accent where the alignment will last 5 years.
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
If you aren’t going to listen to or understand any of the conversation here… then good luck in your crusade.
I'm still waiting for him to show me a single person that has had shims or arms installed and had an alignment (obviously not at Tesla) that are having this issue.
Asked for a single instance of it months ago and he still hasn't been able to provide one. You'd think out of the hundreds of people now, if not thousands, it would be easy to find just one person having the same issue, if it was in fact (which it is not) a Michelin defect.
You would also think we could find examples of other tires having this same problem if it were just an alignment problem and had nothing to do with the Michelin tires.
Seems to me it's probably a bit of both. Bad stock alignment settings, lack of adjustability, and a model of tires that are vulnerable to the alignment.
Seems to me it's probably a bit of both. Bad stock alignment settings, lack of adjustability, and a model of tires that are vulnerable to the alignment.
-1.1 rear camber via adjustable arms + all other alignment settings in spec per Tesla = 10K miles on rear T2 PS4S, minimal wear to date including the very innermost edge. If these tires make it to 20K+, I'm pretty much making my money back on the N2itive arms.
Caveat is I rarely, if ever, launch my car. I do go high speed though duh.
Tesla gave us a sht suspension sandwich so the onus is on us to address it if you care about this sort of thing.
Caveat is I rarely, if ever, launch my car. I do go high speed though duh.
Tesla gave us a sht suspension sandwich so the onus is on us to address it if you care about this sort of thing.
There are examples. I posted one of a model x on 22" pirelli with the identical problem. You can also scan back a few years and see the previous model S had similar issues.
The only difference now is that it is pronounced significantly more because we're running 300+hp through each individual rear tire.
Yep, the stock alignment may not be ideal, but pretty much every other wheel/tire combo on these cars shows normal wear. The 21” Michelins appear to be particularly sensitive.
I’m also not a big fan of reducing camber on a performance car.
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Camber by itself will induce normal camber wear. It’s the negative dynamic toe in addition to the camber that shreds the tire.
No because the tire size is weird and no one uses much else other than the PS4S.
Most of us who are smart enough to use different brands/sizes have already also put arms on.
I agree with this statement. On acceleration, the car will naturally gain negative camber and toe out more. The advantage of more toe out is better turn in, and more negative camber will give it more cornering grip. Both of these are advantages at the limit of the car on a road course race track. If you can drive the car at the limit, this will gain you a few tenths in lap times, if you are truly an expert driver. The downside of the factory settings is obviously tire wear.
I have put 6k miles on my MSP, run the P zero 19s. Adding some toe in at the rear will make the car more stable at higher speeds and reduce tire wear. Less negative camber will make it hook up better in a straight line and reduce tire wear. Even besides the tire wear problem, more toe in and less camber will make the car drive better on the street, it will feel better to most drivers with the benefit of less tire wear.
They will hold up slightly better because those falkens are much harder, which means they slide more and wear less.
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