Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?

[xEvoLveDx]

Just another data point - The other day I pulled off my arachnids to replace with lightweight forged 20" wheels. The rear tires on the arachnids had ~8650 miles (they were replaced because I picked up a nail in the previous set). The tires had even wear and the inside edges looked OK with no signs of SEVERE wear or delamination. The front tires had ~17,300 miles on them and while clearly near end of life, the inside edges showed no sign of SEVERE wear or delamination. The inside edges on both front and back were clearly the most worn areas but not beyond what I would expect.

The previous set of rear tires (when I picked up a nail one), were in the same condition around 8650 miles.

I'm hoping my new PS 4S tires in track package sizes on the 20" wheels will wear well. They are non tesla spec tires, just regular PS 4S. There is more road noise without the foam but nothing bad and heavily dependent on road surface.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Just another data point - The other day I pulled off my arachnids to replace with lightweight forged 20" wheels. The rear tires on the arachnids had ~8650 miles (they were replaced because I picked up a nail in the previous set). The tires had even wear and the inside edges looked OK with no signs of SEVERE wear or delamination. The front tires had ~17,300 miles on them and while clearly near end of life, the inside edges showed no sign of SEVERE wear or delamination. The inside edges on both front and back were clearly the most worn areas but not beyond what I would expect.

The previous set of rear tires (when I picked up a nail one), were in the same condition around 8650 miles.

I'm hoping my new PS 4S tires in track package sizes on the 20" wheels will wear well. They are non tesla spec tires, just regular PS 4S. There is more road noise without the foam but nothing bad and heavily dependent on road surface.

I had the same experience. I didn't see any extra wear on the inside edges, until they delaminated around 16k miles. The inside edge wear is pretty subtle.

Surprisingly, there are lot of oems using the 305/30/r20 size. But, I couldn't find any Michelins with acoustic foam.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?zip-code=27705&width=305/&ratio=30&diameter=20&rearWidth=255/&rearRatio=40&rearDiameter=17&performance=ALL

 

[KOL2000]

was this measured in low ? Thats a lot of camber in low if you have adjustable arms.

I have no idea but these folks have done many of these installs

 

[Sam1]

I have no idea but these folks have done many of these installs

The excess camber isn't going to cause the crazy wear issues. As long as the car feels good to you when you drive it, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Seems like in the low setting though, the car handles best with 1.2 or less camber (on the street or drag strip).

 

[bkcyk]

FWIW here’s my alignment sheet on low with n2itive adjustable rear camber arms.

I default to low on my June 2023 build MSP.

Currently at 3k miles from new, 21” arachnids with TP brakes. Time will tell. Feels great!

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Don't deflect, I am asking a very specific question. It kinda makes you look silly when you direct very specific blame for an issue, then you can't provide a single case where the independent variable (camber arms - or shims/alignment) was implemented and it resulted in the same outcome you're asserting.

Just a single instance is all we want to see. That's it, not complicated. The cars have been out for multiple years now and you can't seem to find anything.

I'm not understanding the question.

The facts are, as best we know, that on this entire forum there has not been a single 19" OEM Pirelli tire failure on any updated Model S.

Not one.

In remarkable if not stunning contrast, we have dozens and dozens of pages showing tread separation/sidewall delamination on the 21" OEM Michelin tires, and on more than one thread no less.

Yet you and some others persist in the believe that this is purely an alignment issue, and not a Michelin tire defect . . . do I understand you correctly?

 

[Sam1]

I'm not understanding the question.

The facts are, as best we know, that on this entire forum there has not been a single 19" OEM Pirelli tire failure on any updated Model S.

Not one.

In remarkable if not stunning contrast, we have dozens and dozens of pages showing tread separation/sidewall delamination on the 21" OEM Michelin tires, and on more than one thread no less.

Yet you and some others persist in the believe that this is purely an alignment issue, and not a Michelin tire defect . . . do I understand you correctly?

Tons of people in this thread have explained it to you with the 19 vs 21 wear differences but you keep ignoring it.

You also like to ignore the posts about the lucids having the same issue on pirellis, and the model X's on 22" with contis and pirellis having the same issue.

All you have to do is post a single instance with premature wear on a car that has an aftermarket camber setup and had a proper alignment done that is seeing the problem.

Shouldn't be that hard to find a single case, right?

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Tons of people in this thread have explained it to you with the 19 vs 21 wear differences but you keep ignoring it.

You also like to ignore the posts about the lucids having the same issue on pirellis, and the model X's on 22" with contis and pirellis having the same issue.

All you have to do is post a single instance with premature wear on a car that has an aftermarket camber setup and had a proper alignment done that is seeing the problem.

Shouldn't be that hard to find a single case, right?

Actually, it would be very difficult as very few fall into the subset of "have aftermarket camber setup" in the overall population of "Tesla Model S Plaid owners that post on TMC Forums."

Frankly, this is an obsession that is not worthy of our time to discuss, or for you to post.

What matters here are the BIG NUMBERS. In this case, the BIG NUMBERS are the two groups of Tesla Model S Plaids: those with 19" OEM Pirelli tires, and those with 21" OEM Michelin tires.

In these two cases it appears that we have major outcome differences: the Pirelli subset has apparently had NOT ONE tread delamination, while there are dozens to hundreds of Michelin tread/sidewall delaminations/separations JUST on the TMC Forums (with likely untold thousands that do not post here or anywhere).

Given the latter subset of tires will likely result in a high-energy crash at some point, possibly leading to injuries and fatalities, I would hope that Michelin would recall these defective tires BEFORE someone gets hurt.

I am disappointed that you persist in demonstrating a lack of concern given the safety risk a high-energy crash would pose, and that you focus so intently on any other reason for these failures, such as an over-emphasis on a supposed Tesla alignment issue (one that somehow ONLY impacts Michelin tires).

 

[emailforbrett]

It’s not the brand, it’s the size. 19” tires do not have the inner tread separation. 21” tires do have the inner tread separation. 21” Michelin tires have it on Teslas as OEM tires. 21” Pirelli tires have it on Lucids as OEM tires.

 

[n2mb_racing]

It’s not the brand, it’s the size. 19” tires do not have the inner tread separation. 21” tires do have the inner tread separation. 21” Michelin tires have it on Teslas as OEM tires. 21” Pirelli tires have it on Lucids as OEM tires.

Actually, seems to be the specific 295/30/r21 size and / or model. The old 265/35/r21 Michelin rears did not delaminate.

 

[emailforbrett]

Sounds like they need to go back to the skinny tires!

 

[n2mb_racing]

Sounds like they need to go back to the skinny tires!

They still wore out prematurely on the inner edges. I'd just put on camber arms, get a good alignment, and stop worrying about it. But, I'm hoping for a buyback on my car for all the other issues. I'll plan to do camber arms on the new car, assuming I get one.

 

[Sam1]

The facts are, as best we know, that on this entire forum there has not been a single 19" OEM Pirelli tire failure on any updated Model S.

Whoops your post didn't age well.

19" Pirelli on a plaid just posted on another group

 

[DayTrippin]

He might have been running lowering links and made the camber even worse. Which could bring the 19
s into play so to speak. That beat the crap out of the car too.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Whoops your post didn't age well.

19" Pirelli on a plaid just posted on another group

View attachment 980616

View attachment 980615

That's a different failure, though....

Anyway, why are we arguing this? Just fix the alignment, problem solved. We've got other stupid problems to worry about, like the 40-50 mph vibration and the 80+ mph vibration.

 

[Sam1]

He might have been running lowering links and made the camber even worse. Which could bring the 19
s into play so to speak. That beat the crap out of the car too.

1000 miles on the car.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Whoops your post didn't age well.

19" Pirelli on a plaid just posted on another group

View attachment 980616

View attachment 980615

Can that be patched or is that too much on the sidewall?

 

[RL-TheDude]

Can that be patched or is that too much on the sidewall?

I saw a good kit on Amazon for that I think.

 

[ginmqi]

Do we have any data points on people running 305/30/21 tires..I assume this will still fit but with a slightly beefier sidewall height and might help a bit with the inner edge wear? If you don't want to mess with adding shims.

Reading through and saw this post mention some people going 305s:

Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?

Was the bad tire driver’s rear by any chance? If you're asking me, then yes my repaired/patched tire was the drivers side rear. It picked up a nail.

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[n2mb_racing]

Do we have any data points on people running 305/30/21 tires..I assume this will still fit but with a slightly beefier sidewall height and might help a bit with the inner edge wear? If you don't want to mess with adding shims.

Reading through and saw this post mention some people going 305s:

Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?

Was the bad tire driver’s rear by any chance? If you're asking me, then yes my repaired/patched tire was the drivers side rear. It picked up a nail.

teslamotorsclub.com

I'd be interested in running 305/30/20 tires, like on the track pack.