Please chime in if in agreement so that AP is not disabled...

[CHG-ON]

I am totally OK with training and signing a waiver. I'd gladly do it, even though I have been using AP everyday since launch and understand its limitations fully. I can always learn more. We don't get training now. But we are, in effect, signing a waiver when we select agree to the onscreen disclaimer. I do not think that having us physically sign a waiver would put Tesla at risk. Depending upon the wording, they are not necessarily admitting that the feature is inherently unsafe, just that it is not fully autonomous.

Unfortunately, I think training really only helps those who are motivated to know the most in order to be safe. As we all see almost everyday, there are many drivers that don't care enough about safety to put their full attention on driving: texting, on the phone, reading and every other thing we can imagine. Chalk it up to ignorance.

Aside from the simple fact of not wanting to put my own life at risk, I am HIGHLY motivated to not crash (or even scratch!) my $130K folly. Seems like common sense to me.

 

[RogerHScott]

Shall we force everyone to sign a waver before they're allowed to purchase a smartphone?

Is that even an option? Hand me that petition!

 

[RogerHScott]

The distracted drivers (and there are a lot of them) will be safer with lane keeping and TACC technology.

I disagree. Anything that seems like "automation" will only encourage people who are already paying insufficient attention to the task of driving to pay even less attention. We're getting into sort of an "uncanny valley" situation here, where cars are more and more likely to seem to promise more than they can actually deliver, tempting more and more of those with poor judgment to overly rely on them. As superficially appealing as it is, the "screw the idiots, let 'em crash!" attitude is ultimately unlikely to serve the purposes of the greater (semi-)autonomous driving community.

 

[inspron]

Stupid idea.

Short sighted shortcut of a suggestion insteading of spending the resources to design an improved interface and intuitive user experience. OP, does it occur to you no one reads the 10 page fine prints?

What happens when there are multiple drivers?? Signing *sugar* doesn't change users' understanding of limitations of the technology. Sure create a video of 100s exceptions cases on when it doesn't work and expect people to remember each applicability of the exceptions during a split second emergency?? What happens when you release an update that reduce/change those limitations???

Dim witted suggestion!

 

[JeffK]

Stupid idea.

Short sighted shortcut of a suggestion insteading of spending the resources to design an improved interface and intuitive user experience. OP, does it occur to you no one reads the 10 page fine prints?

What happens when there are multiple drivers?? Signing *sugar* doesn't change users' understanding of limitations of the technology. Sure create a video of 100s exceptions cases on when it doesnt work?? What happens when you release an update that reduce those limitations???

STUPID IDEA!

It's actually not as complex as you're making it out to be. An entire video might be less than five minutes long. It could easily be updated with every relevant firmware release that involve autopilot related changes.

You might have seen similar videos during any drivers training course or motorcycle training course..

 

[javawolfpack]

It's nearly impossible to design software for "idiots"... the user is the bane of any software developer. I'm not sure if there is a solution to make sure people who own Teslas w/ AP use it safer. There are people who can't seem to follow simple rules they were supposed to learn to drive in the first place, or fail to follow any posted instructions on the road. Yes, systems like AP might make these horrible drivers more complacent; however, it also might protect more of us from their stupidity at the same time, I realize as a level 2 autonomous vehicle this isn't assured but they likely would drive the same regardless in my opinion.

And as one who fully grasps the technology, limitations, etc... I'm excited to have it in my vehicle, but also appreciate that it doesn't mean I can stop focusing on driving and let the car take over completely for me. Now mind you appreciate very few people have my educational background...

 

[zambono]

It's actually not as complex as you're making it out to be. An entire video might be less than five minutes long. It could easily be updated with every relevant firmware release that involve autopilot related changes.

You might have seen similar videos during any drivers training course or motorcycle training course..

Don't worry about that guy he is much more concerned about belittling others ideas than actually bringing something thoughtful to the table. Normally people like that are simply called trolls, and while many of us enjoy our successes all they do is complain from the sidelines.

 

[RogerHScott]

I do not think that having us physically sign a waiver would put Tesla at risk. Depending upon the wording, they are not necessarily admitting that the feature is inherently unsafe, just that it is not fully autonomous.

What you are waiving when you sign a waiver is the right to hold someone legally accountable for something, usually the consequences
of some action you are about to take. Tesla wouldn't be offering such a waiver unless they implicitly believed that there was some
potential legal liability they're trying to avoid. Bottom line: people not at risk don't bother with waivers.

 

[CHG-ON]

What you are waiving when you sign a waiver is the right to hold someone legally accountable for something, usually the consequences
of some action you are about to take. Tesla wouldn't be offering such a waiver unless they implicitly believed that there was some
potential legal liability they're trying to avoid. Bottom line: people not at risk don't bother with waivers.

Ahh. But clearly Tesla has a huge risk, even without AP. They are transporting people at high speeds, completely out of Tesla's control, who can kill themselves, either through their actions, or other's. They are smart to cover themselves. Also, I am not an automotive or software law expert, so I am postulating, but physically signing a form vs clicking an alert may well be the exact same thing legally. Just look at all the software disclaimers we all need to sign to use our devices. They are holding up in court.

 

[Genshi]

I agree they need to do something, if for no other reason than they're getting hammered in the press for something that's almost certainly the fault of the drivers in question. I understand that autopilot uses a very, very complex algorithm. But you don't have to understand the algorithm to understand that they advise using it in VERY limited scenarios and that you must always continue paying attention.

At this point, I wouldn't use autopilot any less carefully than I currently use cruise control. Not because it isn't worlds different and better, but because at this point it's not capable of processing a large subsection of real world stimuli. (ie: pedestrians, cross traffic, traffic signs, etc)

 

[jdw]

Now that the NTSB has joined in this investigation, why not wait until we get the results of the NHSTA and NTSB before people start looking for solutions?

While I agree with you, I'm not that worried about the NHSTA and the NTSB ... I'm worried about the constant flow of misinformation in the media. I don't know that there is anything Tesla can do about that as there are an awful lot of people (lot of awful people?) with a vested interest in Tesla failing. It's a PR fight more than anything.

 

[msnow]

While I agree with you, I'm not that worried about the NHSTA and the NTSB ... I'm worried about the constant flow of misinformation in the media. I don't know that there is anything Tesla can do about that as there are an awful lot of people (lot of awful people?) with a vested interest in Tesla failing. It's a PR fight more than anything.

That's true.

 

[yo mama]

I disagree. Anything that seems like "automation" will only encourage people who are already paying insufficient attention to the task of driving to pay even less attention. We're getting into sort of an "uncanny valley" situation here, where cars are more and more likely to seem to promise more than they can actually deliver, tempting more and more of those with poor judgment to overly rely on them. As superficially appealing as it is, the "screw the idiots, let 'em crash!" attitude is ultimately unlikely to serve the purposes of the greater (semi-)autonomous driving community.

You can try to make something idiot proof, but they'll just make a better idiot.

The only reason a waiver makes sense is so that Tesla has a better legal defense. But it won't make anyone safer and I'm fine with that. Dumb people have been killing themselves with their own stupidity for as long has there have been people. Nothing Tesla could possibly do would ever change that. As it stands Tesla does a better job than most of protecting its drivers. My personal belief is that stifling this technology would be a net loss for long term driver saftey.

 

[jgs]

All the overreaction in the media is completely inane, and I'm afraid that reacting to the overreaction is just second-order inane. About the only thing I think Tesla should do is drop the silly "beta" tag.

Fortunately they don't care what I think about what they should do.

 

[Hengist]

I might think that anything that impedes or removes the autopilot functions, for which we paid significant money, and which are a key feature of the car, would be an invitation to a massive class action lawsuit. So far I have seen nothing suggesting undisclosed defects in the software. It has not shown itself to be more dangerous when in use than when not in use.

Acceleration, high top speed, these are dangerous. Should they be limited? Hardly. Autopilot does not fall into that. Those who wish can always disable it. Indeed Tesla is the only car I know of where you can disable high rates of acceleration and limit top speed in software.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

To have a paid beta for life threatening technology was a mistake on Tesla's part. AP 1.0 will never get out of beta. AP 2.0 might, but what are all the folks going to do that are stuck with AP 1.0 in perpetual beta.

All AP version are going to be in perpetual beta. It's a learning system.

Wasn't Hal 9000 in Beta??

Err, wait bad example.

 

[jkk_]

Don't worry about that guy he is much more concerned about belittling others ideas than actually bringing something thoughtful to the table. Normally people like that are simply called trolls, and while many of us enjoy our successes all they do is complain from the sidelines.

Except he did suggest something, emphasis mine:

Short sighted shortcut of a suggestion insteading of spending the resources to design an improved interface and intuitive user experience. OP, does it occur to you no one reads the 10 page fine prints?

With respect, I'd rather have them improve the interface and not try to nanny their customers. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't inform about the systems current shortcomings which I believe they do. AFAIK, when someone enables AP (s)he will receive the warning and is accepting responsibility.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Saw this with your link to the forums, by mp1156.

Just had to repost here because I liked it!

And yes, I would like it if Tesla had a training course, or even a simulator for AP.

 

[zambono]

You can try to make something idiot proof, but they'll just make a better idiot.

The only reason a waiver makes sense is so that Tesla has a better legal defense. But it won't make anyone safer and I'm fine with that. Dumb people have been killing themselves with their own stupidity for as long has there have been people. Nothing Tesla could possibly do would ever change that. As it stands Tesla does a better job than most of protecting its drivers. My personal belief is that stifling this technology would be a net loss for long term driver saftey.

My point

 

[doctorwho]

All the overreaction in the media is completely inane, and I'm afraid that reacting to the overreaction is just second-order inane. About the only thing I think Tesla should do is drop the silly "beta" tag.

Fortunately they don't care what I think about what they should do.

Agree, just call it Autopilot 1.0. Even better call it Driver assistant 1.0 and change the name of the driver to the Supervisor. That clarifies the relationship