Porsche Mission E

[nativewolf]

Well I rarely chime in but will here. Top Gear is agenda driven, the reality is that Porsche is responding to a triumph of American engineering and entrepreneurship. Porsche can't figure out how to remotely make it relevant for the average consumer. Neither can VW.

Top Gear hates that but they have never ever been about anything other than a strange metric that promotes BMWs etc. A beamer can be a pleasant car to drive but other than that...it sucks. Expensive, expensive to own, low low term reliability, poor user ergonomics, cluttered, etc etc. I could go on and on but hey if you want to put on a track and that is the only metric you look at and buy a car on that decision well go for it. In the meantime EVERY car maker in the world is scrambling to respond to Tesla and Tesla continues to have a 5+ year head start. Nothing has changed. Nor will it unless they figure out supercharging networks. Could tesla use some beamer engineers, sure maybe 100 or so. The S rides great but sure it could be better.

I cannot believe that schmuck actually said it made him car sick, what an asswipe. The hell it did, they flat out lie and make up stories for entertainment and the show producers are all for sale. If I were president I'd ban top gear for being fraudsters.

 

[seattlite2004]

Well I rarely chime in but will here. Top Gear is agenda driven, the reality is that Porsche is responding to a triumph of American engineering and entrepreneurship. Porsche can't figure out how to remotely make it relevant for the average consumer. Neither can VW.

Top Gear hates that but they have never ever been about anything other than a strange metric that promotes BMWs etc. A beamer can be a pleasant car to drive but other than that...it sucks. Expensive, expensive to own, low low term reliability, poor user ergonomics, cluttered, etc etc. I could go on and on but hey if you want to put on a track and that is the only metric you look at and buy a car on that decision well go for it. In the meantime EVERY car maker in the world is scrambling to respond to Tesla and Tesla continues to have a 5+ year head start. Nothing has changed. Nor will it unless they figure out supercharging networks. Could tesla use some beamer engineers, sure maybe 100 or so. The S rides great but sure it could be better.

I cannot believe that schmuck actually said it made him car sick, what an asswipe. The hell it did, they flat out lie and make up stories for entertainment and the show producers are all for sale. If I were president I'd ban top gear for being fraudsters.

Same "schmuck", "asswipe" likes the Model 3....

Tesla gets full 'Top Gear' treatment, Chris Harris to buy Model 3 'soon' after review

Twitter

 

[Ruffone]

...and weight! Also 27% is more than a slight advantage. That matters quite a bit if your taking this car to the track and driving it home afterward. Track use is obviously very hard on battery range.

So does the drag coefficient, tire size, handling characteristics and so many other variables besides just weight. You can make a car as light as you want, but if it can’t put all that power to pavement consistently and your tires spin you will also lose battery range and possibly overheat the electric motors. I’m looking forward to when they actually test these two side by side on the road and on the track.

 

[Ruffone]

Well I rarely chime in but will here. Top Gear is agenda driven, the reality is that Porsche is responding to a triumph of American engineering and entrepreneurship. Porsche can't figure out how to remotely make it relevant for the average consumer.

Porsche has never wanted to be or even pretended to be relevant to the average consumer. Engineering wise Porsche is by far the superior product. What Tesla has over everyone else is computer technology. You want your car to be a driverless taxi you buy a Tesla, you want your car to challenge you and thrill you around every twist and turn you buy a Porsche.

 

[Scott7]

So does the drag coefficient, tire size, handling characteristics and so many other variables besides just weight. You can make a car as light as you want, but if it can’t put all that power to pavement consistently and your tires spin you will also lose battery range and possibly overheat the electric motors. I’m looking forward to when they actually test these two side by side on the road and on the track.

Of course lots of variables matter.

It seems like you might be a bit out of date on your understanding of current Tesla cars? For example it’s very rare to spin a tire in a Tesla under any scenario (some would say to a fault).

Odd to defend 5200 lbs as any sort of ideal situation for a track car. Porsche itself tries to keep weight down as much as possible, for example GT3/GT4. Why should the Taycan get a pass on that metric?

Model S is no track car by any means and was never was meant to be. The Model 3 will beat a Model S in most track scenarios.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

So does the drag coefficient, tire size, handling characteristics and so many other variables besides just weight. You can make a car as light as you want, but if it can’t put all that power to pavement consistently and your tires spin you will also lose battery range and possibly overheat the electric motors. I’m looking forward to when they actually test these two side by side on the road and on the track.

The Taycan has already, and very clearly, lost on the "road." I do hope it can meet the expectations of Porsche owners (8%?) that will take it on a track.

 

[Magellan55]

I'm guessing one thing the Taycan will take from Tesla (at least until Roadster shows up) is halo / rock star EV. The kind that hip-hop songs are written for and primo valet parking spots are reserved for. Tesla's had that mantle for a decade, quite a run especially considering they had no heritage. I'm not sure Musk really wants to be a niche halo car company though - he seems more interested in being Chevrolet, building millions of cars for the masses, and then robo-taxis, with a Corvette-type halo car for fun. The S / X were just necessary high end stepping stones to justify the price he had to charge at the time.

We're already seeing the transition away from premium brand with service - feeling more and more like going to a Chevy dealer instead of Lexus. Makes sense as the majority of cars are now low margin Model 3 and soon Y, they can't sustain the white glove treatment from when it was just low volume six figure cars.

Funny though, when I showed my wife the Taycan, she said "meh, looks like a GM car"!

 

[FlatSix911]

Locate a charger | Electrify America
View attachment 450689

How many of these stations are actually working? Half are out of order in this region...

 

[FlatSix911]

The truth... Porsche Taycan demonstrates difficulty launching performance EV on Tesla turf - Electrek

Yesterday’s Porsche Taycan launch should have been a monumental event for the EV industry. The top performance carmaker in the world unveiled its new flagship automobile and it is fully electric. Porsche has tons of orders, is putting its marketing might behind it and frankly, it is a damn fine automobile. Send us one… to test!

However, moments after the vehicle launched you could already hear the grumbling from Tesla fans and spec junkies.
Porsche’s flagship sports car doesn’t even match Tesla’s luxury sedan in important metrics like acceleration, top speed, and range even though it can only be had at a steep price premium.

Porsche actually built a 2-speed transmission and still couldn’t beat the top speed or acceleration of a Tesla sedan and the range isn’t even close? If Porsche can’t match Tesla’s sedan specs in a sports car with limited interior space, then what hope do other carmakers have?

 

[5JMJ]

I agree the Taycan is not a sports car. But I still like the solid steering feel I get with Porsches. I also like the Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control, which drastically reduces body roll. These were the 2 things I did not like in the Model S (Steering and suspension / chassis). What I don't know is if these 2 things are worth the huge additional costs.

Have you tried the Raven upgrade to see how the new suspension performs?

 

[p-f-g]

However, moments after the vehicle launched you could already hear the grumbling from Tesla fans and spec junkies.

Normal, this audience is specifically not fan of cars.

 

[ICUDoc]

Normal, this audience is specifically not fan of cars.

That's an inappropriate generalisation.

 

[Magellan55]

I had been comparing the Taycan specs to the Model 3 lineup, but that Electrek article hints at the auto industry's real issue - they take too long to plan a new car. Looking at the Taycan's specs, and rumored specs of the base and 4S models, it appears their targets were set back in 2015 - using the S70, S85D, P85D, and P85DL as their performance bogies.

 

[SmartElectric]

Context : Porsche's Best-Selling Models In 2018 Were By Far Its SUVs

Panamera which recorded the strongest growth year-over-year of 38 percent with 38,443 sales

It is entirely possible Porsche will sell more Taycan than Panamera on a yearly basis, maybe not in 2020, but it's plausible.
Nearly 40000 people bought a gas 4 door Porsche sedan last year.

The market for Taycan must be nearly that many, and it's unlikely Porsche will be able to supply them due to battery contract constraints as reported online.

I personally love the look and choices Porsche made like the high recuperation rate (much stronger than Model S).
I also agree with the many opinions here that this is not a more compelling offering than the new 2019 Model S Performance.

But that's why there are so many car markers and models, choice.

 

[Ruffone]

Of course lots of variables matter.

It seems like you might be a bit out of date on your understanding of current Tesla cars? For example it’s very rare to spin a tire in a Tesla under any scenario (some would say to a fault).

Actually no I’m not. We were talking about weight and going after the top times. I don’t care what car you drive, if you are pushing it to get the fastest times you will get some tire slippage. I don’t care if you are driving an electric car or a gas guzzling racer, when it comes to sliding or spinning it is all tire unless you have some type of traction control system on your vehicle. EVs use the same rubber tire that gas guzzlers use.

 

[Ruffone]

The Taycan has already, and very clearly, lost on the "road." I do hope it can meet the expectations of Porsche owners (8%?) that will take it on a track.

So explain how something that has not been driven on the road and thoroughly tested yet can lose? You’re basing your thoughts on the Automotive media that has not yet driven and put through its paces a street ready vehicle.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

So explain how something that has not been driven on the road and thoroughly tested yet can lose? You’re basing your thoughts on the Automotive media that has not yet driven and put through its paces a street ready vehicle.

I'm basing it on the specs.

 

[Ruffone]

I'm basing it on the specs.

Obviously you don’t follow cars or the Porsche brand much then. Porsche is well known for understating performance figures on all its vehicles. (Well with the exception of the diesel vehicle issue ) Come back when they are out in the general public and they are truly put through their paces and both vehicles are tested side by side. Then let’s talk and compare.

All I know is that I’m glad manufacturers are finally starting to Introduce better looking EVs and hybrids. The current crop left a lot to be desired in the looks department.

 

[tonybelding]

Here's another data point that I stumbled across…

Why the Porsche Taycan electric car won't have one-pedal driving

What surprised me is all the people chiming in the comments saying that, yes, what Porsche are doing sounds fine to them. It sounds like a deal-breaker to me. I've been driving my Roadster for almost four years now, and the way Tesla set up regen works incredibly well. I like having all the motor control (including regen) on one pedal, and brake control on the other. It's very natural, gives me perfect control, and I've never felt any desire for any adjustment settings or alternate modes. Now Porsche comes along and says that's all wrong? That's pretty tough for me to swallow.

 

[seattlite2004]

Here's another data point that I stumbled across…

Why the Porsche Taycan electric car won't have one-pedal driving

What surprised me is all the people chiming in the comments saying that, yes, what Porsche are doing sounds fine to them. It sounds like a deal-breaker to me. I've been driving my Roadster for almost four years now, and the way Tesla set up regen works incredibly well. I like having all the motor control (including regen) on one pedal, and brake control on the other. It's very natural, gives me perfect control, and I've never felt any desire for any adjustment settings or alternate modes. Now Porsche comes along and says that's all wrong? That's pretty tough for me to swallow.

Wonder what this does... Hmmmm