Potential BOLT customers being suctioned up by Tesla !

[jbcarioca]

The Bolt does have J1772 CCS capability. That's "fast charging" capability by most definitions. Sure, it's not as fast as a Supercharger, and the infrastructure isn't as widespread, but it's not like you're only stuck with Level 2 AC charging with the Bolt.

We all should remember that Tesla has just joined with the CCS parent group. The next CCS generation will have charging capacity higher than Superchargers today and will allow Tesla (or anybody) to offer free charging via specific vehicle ID among other things...
Combined Charging System (CCS) 2.0

 

[S'toon]

The Bolt does have J1772 CCS capability. That's "fast charging" capability by most definitions. Sure, it's not as fast as a Supercharger, and the infrastructure isn't as widespread, but it's not like you're only stuck with Level 2 AC charging with the Bolt.

That's not standard. The CCS charging is and add-on option.

 

[eloder]

We all should remember that Tesla has just joined with the CCS parent group. The next CCS generation will have charging capacity higher than Superchargers today and will allow Tesla (or anybody) to offer free charging via specific vehicle ID among other things...
Combined Charging System (CCS) 2.0

Why does that matter? Nobody is even building CCS chargers now in locations that matter, and very few CCS chargers now reach maximum specced charging speeds.

Superchargers are the only viable network for the forseeable future. Even if a competitor announced a network today, it wouldn't be ready until after Model 3's release and by that point it'd still be a fraction the size of the supercharger network.

 

[jbcarioca]

Why does that matter? Nobody is even building CCS chargers now in locations that matter, and very few CCS chargers now reach maximum specced charging speeds.

Superchargers are the only viable network for the forseeable future. Even if a competitor announced a network today, it wouldn't be ready until after Model 3's release and by that point it'd still be a fraction the size of the supercharger network.

Sorry, not quite true.,CCS chargers are new in thebUS but are being rapidly deployed. Many of them have CHAdeMO and J1772 also. I used one myself in Greenville, SC a few months ago. My city Coral Gables. FL is installing them in all city garages right now. A quick glance at PlugShare can tell you why this is important. All significant non-Chinese competitors are now members. Today there is not much importance. In 2020 every European manufacturer will have a range of EV's. They are rushing to meet EU standards.

I suggest reading up on this before dismissing it. Tesla has joined. European Superchargers are already prepared for this. Chances are great that the Supercharger network will convert.

This can happen and Tesla will still be able to have free Supercharging with a much larger network and greeter usage.
Get ready! The future Elon advocated is happening right now.

 

[Menifeer]

I reserved an M3, but will also likely buy a Bolt when they become available.

The M3 will probably not be in my garage until early 2019, but a Bolt should be available two years before that.

Until Tesla showrooms/service centers/whatever are available near where buyers live, Chevy will have the proximity advantage and that will make a difference for a lot of people.

 

[HookBill]

I reserved an M3, but will also likely buy a Bolt when they become available.

The M3 will probably not be in my garage until early 2019, but a Bolt should be available two years before that.

Until Tesla showrooms/service centers/whatever are available near where buyers live, Chevy will have the proximity advantage and that will make a difference for a lot of people.

Building more Chademo and CCS chargers can only benefit Tesla as they already have a Chademo adapter and may also create an adapter for CCS. The more charging locations there are, the better for Tesla.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I reserved an M3, but will also likely buy a Bolt when they become available.

The M3 will probably not be in my garage until early 2019, but a Bolt should be available two years before that.

Until Tesla showrooms/service centers/whatever are available near where buyers live, Chevy will have the proximity advantage and that will make a difference for a lot of people.

I think you're in the minority, not to mention "a lot" of people is relative. I wouldn't necessarily say that ~60k is "a lot" over 2 years, unless we consider the BEV market to be rather small.

I hope the Bolt is successful, but it certainly seems that the M3 will be orders of magnitude more so. I really have no idea why many people would choose the Bolt over the Volt, at this point in time. Especially if they're interested in the M3.

 

[CT200h]

I had a 2012 Leaf for 3 years, have an i3 leased til December of this year, reserved a model 3 in store.

I will be leasing something in December, another i3 2017 model ? Bolt. Gen 2 Leaf ?

Anyway point is I'm not out of the market, I need something to drive for the next 2 years plus til the 3 is out, heck it will likely be 3 years til I see one on the east coast here, especially since I'm not going to configure for max options and range. Chevy just might get my money even though the car is much less compelling than the Tesla.
I can't drive a reservation to work.

 

[HookBill]

Well said. I'm sure you are one of many faced with a similar decision.

 

[jbcarioca]

I had a 2012 Leaf for 3 years, have an i3 leased til December of this year, reserved a model 3 in store.

I will be leasing something in December, another i3 2017 model ? Bolt. Gen 2 Leaf ?

Anyway point is I'm not out of the market, I need something to drive for the next 2 years plus til the 3 is out, heck it will likely be 3 years til I see one on the east coast here, especially since I'm not going to configure for max options and range. Chevy just might get my money even though the car is much less compelling than the Tesla.
I can't drive a reservation to work.

People keep forgetting your points. In my view, the biggest news of the last three days is that the Bolt, next generation Leaf, the i3, and all those PHEV's coming during the next couple of years are suddenly going to find buyers. Elon is succeeding in his mission to spread EV's. The biggest single constraint is probably the 5-8 years needed to develop new lithium capacity. Luckily Nevada and Chile, among others, are already expanding at a breakneck pace.

 

[JTwo]

The Bolt has one huge advantage over the 3; a year and a half head start. I assume Chevy has.actually started to build them, thus demonstrating they can deliver them.

Don't get me wrong, I've drunk the Tesla Kool Aid and have put my deposit in but, not everyone who wants a reasonably priced EV w/decent range wants to wait a year and a half plus, and the Bolt will be available way sooner.

 

[Drivin]

.

I suggest reading up on this before dismissing it. Tesla has joined. European Superchargers are already prepared for this. Chances are great that the Supercharger network will convert.

.

Of course they will.
1. Tesla has said that they are open to opening up the super chargers to other (believe this was in the context of Europe expansion)
2. They also said that they want to promote ev usage so a great way to do that is to convert. It would be hypocritical not to.
3. Since Elon didn't promote free supercharging for the 3 ("capable" or have access to just like new cars are capable of buying Sirius) there is both an economic incentive to convert and a practical one (scaling access to prevent bottlenecks)

 

[JohnSnowNW]

The Bolt has one huge advantage over the 3; a year and a half head start. I assume Chevy has.actually started to build them, thus demonstrating they can deliver them.

Don't get me wrong, I've drunk the Tesla Kool Aid and have put my deposit in but, not everyone who wants a reasonably priced EV w/decent range wants to wait a year and a half plus, and the Bolt will be available way sooner.

I'm just not sure how big the advantage is. I really think there are going to be few people that could look at the Volt, and the Bolt, and decide they need the extra ~150 AER, but not the long-distance capabilities.

In fact, I'd say GMs own research shows that the potential pool of people is rather small.

 

[Menifeer]

I think you're in the minority, not to mention "a lot" of people is relative. I wouldn't necessarily say that ~60k is "a lot" over 2 years, unless we consider the BEV market to be rather small.

I hope the Bolt is successful, but it certainly seems that the M3 will be orders of magnitude more so. I really have no idea why many people would choose the Bolt over the Volt, at this point in time. Especially if they're interested in the M3.

The large number of M3 reservations shows that there's a great demand for a 200-mile EV. I really wanted to get a Leaf when it became available, but its range wasn't enough to meet my desires.

I don't expect to ever need to refuel a 200-mile EV away from home. That will also be true for large numbers of people who live in suburban areas and have two cars, the second of which will never see 200 miles/day. If an EV were my only car, I'd be more interested in the away-from-home charging options.

Nice as it is, I'm not interested in the Volt because it includes a gas engine.

 

[eloder]

Sorry, not quite true.,CCS chargers are new in thebUS but are being rapidly deployed. Many of them have CHAdeMO and J1772 also. I used one myself in Greenville, SC a few months ago. My city Coral Gables. FL is installing them in all city garages right now. A quick glance at PlugShare can tell you why this is important. All significant non-Chinese competitors are now members. Today there is not much importance. In 2020 every European manufacturer will have a range of EV's. They are rushing to meet EU standards.

I suggest reading up on this before dismissing it. Tesla has joined. European Superchargers are already prepared for this. Chances are great that the Supercharger network will convert.

This can happen and Tesla will still be able to have free Supercharging with a much larger network and greeter usage.
Get ready! The future Elon advocated is happening right now.

I don't know about you, but I just can't wait to charge at 1/3rd the speed of a supercharger at 1/3rd of the national locations. There's nothing better than spending an hour charging inside a dealership parking lot for every two hours of driving. I also cannot wait to fight over other EV drivers over the 1-2 slots that will exist at each of these locations as opposed to the 4-16+ slots that exist at every supercharger.

You're also assuming that the Supercharger network will never have a next generation, when they've long been rolling out liquid-cooled cables to prepare for upgraded charging speeds.

You're also assuming that a single company will roll out a comprehensive, cohesive well-supported CCS network suddenly springing out of existence of the loose consortium of dealer-run CCS chargers available now combined with random pay-per-use chargers from five different companies. Or you're assuming the US government is run entirely by EV-friendly politicians, which is perhaps even more unbelievable than a legacy automaker starting a competitive charging network.

Please, please don't insult Tesla by even remotely comparing CCS or chademo to the supercharger network. It's night and day, as big a difference of Mirai versus a Model S.

 

[N5329K]

While both are powered by electrons, the Bolt and the 3 are different cars aimed at different segments of the buying market (though you can argue that GM might have hoped to tap into the Tesla segment, the design they came up with pretty much ends that discussion). It's a hatchback (useful when it's your only car) and it's available sooner (useful if you need a car sooner). But GM/Chevrolet face a real challenge: their dealerships. For whatever reason (not much maintenance to charge back?) , traditional car dealerships don't like selling electric cars, and Detroit has to strong arm them to do so. Read more here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/01/science/electric-car-auto-dealers.html
Robin

 

[AUSinator]

Bolt is still going to sell but 1 thing for sure the TM3 took and is going to take a lot a sales away. All you have to do is compare them head to head and it's a no brainer.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

The large number of M3 reservations shows that there's a great demand for a 200-mile EV. I really wanted to get a Leaf when it became available, but its range wasn't enough to meet my desires.

I don't expect to ever need to refuel a 200-mile EV away from home. That will also be true for large numbers of people who live in suburban areas and have two cars, the second of which will never see 200 miles/day. If an EV were my only car, I'd be more interested in the away-from-home charging options.

Nice as it is, I'm not interested in the Volt because it includes a gas engine.

I think the reservations show that there is a demand for a 200 mile Tesla BEV, that allows the ability to use the vehicle outside of an urban area. I don't think you can overlook these points.

Yes, but I would argue that the majority of the public doesn't care if it included a gas engine. I think it's only a small proportion, even of early EV adopters, that are striking it off their list. I think this forum has a greater proportion of this group than the general BEV interested populace, which gives a skewed view.

 

[TSLAholic]

The Bolt is already dead ... it costs $2000 more, but looks like it'S $10,000 cheaper than the 3.

I gotta disagree with the $10,000 figure here... The Bolt architecture can only be attributed to something like the Sonic, which has a $14,300 msrp. So essentially the Bolt looks like it's $20,700 cheaper than the 3. Ouch.
It doesn't take much figuring to realize that paying a $23,200 premium to drive an electric Chevy Sonic is a terrible deal. It doesn't get any closer to the Volt vs. ELR scenario, and we all know how that turned out for Chevy.

 

[eloder]

People just want a good car, period.

The electric drivetrain itself is a contributing factor, most certainly, but for most people it can't replace things like no regional or long distance travelling or luxury.

Theoretically the Volt should be out-selling the Prius by leaps and bounds if it was all about just having an electric drivetrain. There are people like me that'll sacrifice a lot just for an EV drivetrain (my Leaf), but that's only a tiny minority.