Powerwall 3 in UK?

[Garry TheBiz]

Are powerwalls still on long lead times, or have they gone out of stock altogether with the hope of the Powerwall 3 coming to the UK?

I've considered the GivEnergy battery, but the max discharge rate of the Tesla Powerwall at 5kW is what's swaying me towards Tesla. I believe the GivEnergy can only discharge at 2.6kW which seems a bit pointless, as you'll be frequently topping up from the grid at peak times.

 

[David_ffg]

Are powerwalls still on long lead times, or have they gone out of stock altogether with the hope of the Powerwall 3 coming to the UK?

I've considered the GivEnergy battery, but the max discharge rate of the Tesla Powerwall at 5kW is what's swaying me towards Tesla. I believe the GivEnergy can only discharge at 2.6kW which seems a bit pointless, as you'll be frequently topping up from the grid at peak times.

I was quoted a lead time off May when I ordered a PW in January. When asked about PW3 rumours the response was ‘they can’t make enough PW2 to meet demand, PW3 is vapourware’

 

[PITA]

Are powerwalls still on long lead times, or have they gone out of stock altogether with the hope of the Powerwall 3 coming to the UK?

I've considered the GivEnergy battery, but the max discharge rate of the Tesla Powerwall at 5kW is what's swaying me towards Tesla. I believe the GivEnergy can only discharge at 2.6kW which seems a bit pointless, as you'll be frequently topping up from the grid at peak times.

I had exactly the same issue before ordering my Powerwall 2 around Battery Day announcements in September 2020

Nothing appeared about Powerwall 3, so I went ahead and ordered the Powerwall 2. Here we are a 18 months later and still nothing...

Obviously we are nearer to the launch of Powerwall 3, but when?

How will they prioritise 4680 battery deployment... cars or static storage?

 

[browellm]

Are powerwalls still on long lead times, or have they gone out of stock altogether with the hope of the Powerwall 3 coming to the UK?

I've considered the GivEnergy battery, but the max discharge rate of the Tesla Powerwall at 5kW is what's swaying me towards Tesla. I believe the GivEnergy can only discharge at 2.6kW which seems a bit pointless, as you'll be frequently topping up from the grid at peak times.

I believe GE are launching a 5kW inverter shortly. Depends entirely on your profile. 2.6kW covers 95% of my loads, 95% of the time. If the large oven is on then there's about 1kW import for 10 minutes here and there.

If you are chugging 4-5kW for significant periods of the day, I can completely understand your desire for a large output inverter.

 

[MrT3]

How will they prioritise 4680 battery deployment... cars or static storage?

I believe Tesla has hinted, or outright stated, that their static storage products will move to LFP - which makes sense as they are much more suited to that application and it means they aren't 'wasting' NMC batteries when they cannot get enough for their vehicles.

Just needs a ramp up in LFP production. It will also save Tesla a lot of money, hopefully some passed on to the consumer.

 

[Garry TheBiz]

I believe Tesla has hinted, or outright stated, that their static storage products will move to LFP - which makes sense as they are much more suited to that application and it means they aren't 'wasting' NMC batteries when they cannot get enough for their vehicles.

Just needs a ramp up in LFP production. It will also save Tesla a lot of money, hopefully some passed on to the consumer.

I had recall on battery day when they announcement the 4680 cells, they said home storage would be moving to LFP cells, which totally makes sense. Given that LFP cells are now being made at scale for the SR M3 and MY, I was rather hoping the Powerwall 3 would be imminent.

Perhaps the LFP version with be the Powerwall 4, and here in the UK we'll just skip the 3 and go straight to the 4 later this year or early next year.

Either way, it looks like I'll be in for a long wait and could miss out on a chunk of the summer generation.

 

[Garry TheBiz]

I believe GE are launching a 5kW inverter shortly. Depends entirely on your profile. 2.6kW covers 95% of my loads, 95% of the time. If the large oven is on then there's about 1kW import for 10 minutes here and there.

If you are chugging 4-5kW for significant periods of the day, I can completely understand your desire for a large output inverter.

It's interesting. I've always thought I'd need more than 2.6kW but I've never considered how long for. Washing machine, tumble dryer & dishwasher together pushes us over that limit, but since we currently use these during the Octopus Go Faster window it doesn't matter. Normal evening peak for us would be the cooker, perhaps dishwasher, kettle (but that's only for a couple of minutes).

Perhaps I need to look closer at our power draw over time. Coincidentally I've just setup the Home Assistant on a Raspberry Pi and programmed a couple of CT clamp sensors to measure our current at 5 second intervals. It's only been going a couple of days, but gives me some useful data to see how many times and for how long our load goes over, say 2.6kW, during peak times.

Thanks for highlighting this, I hadn't considered the small cost of importing from the grid for a short duration vs the cost of a Powerwall over another battery from elsewhere.

 

[simon_rb]

Our AC Coupled Givenergy system charges and discharges at 3kWs. Also, you can add more than one inverter. For each inverter added you get an additional 3kWs charge/discharge. Each inverter needs at least 1 battery.

 

[PITA]

I looked at the battery storage differently...

I calculated how much discharge capability I would need to run the house in a blackout.

10kW allows me to run pretty much anything, plus whatever solar generation amount on top of that.

But in a Grid Blackout, I can still run an 8kW electric shower... or the Induction cooker... or the Heat Pump... or even charge the car at 7kW

I could never see the point having storage batteries with solar array, if they become unusable in a blackout, or can't run the house properly.

 

[Limey]

If you need above 2.6kw without the sun providing extra you can run two GE inverters and batteries. You can tell both not to charge from the grid during peak times.

Tesla solution was too expensive for me. I got 4.1kw of solar, 2 inverters, 16.6kwh of batteries for the price of a single powerwall without solar. Only 5.2kwh discharge without solar, but that's the trade off.

 

[Yachtsman]

GE do have a 5kW inverter.

Smart, clean energy storage for your home or business | GivEnergy

Cut your costs with smart energy storage solutions. With GivEnergy technology, you can power your home or business cheaply and sustainably.

www.givenergy.co.uk

I’m going down the SolarEdge route with their dc coupled system, a 10kW battery (9.7kW usable) with 5kW charge/discharge rate, a 5kW inverter and 4.9kWp solar.
I’ve calculated I can run the house on a combination of solar & off peak (octopus go) all year and the EV using off peak + solar in the summer months.

 

[Mrklaw]

i thought powerwall wasn't that expensive (if you don't do the gateway thing) - at least vs other similar capacities.

Are there any good tools/websites to help you estimate your energy usage and what size you'd need? I average about 12kwh per day not including car which is moved to off-peak. only have a 2.6kw solar array so during peak summer it might have enough excess to trickle charge the car but honestly its too much of a faff so I just do it after midnight. So my home usage would be a mix of off-peak charging the battery, solar topping it up and covering usage during the day when there is sun, and battery when not generating.

Don't know where to start simulating that - sure there are edge cases like a super cloudy week in summer, or the deepest lowest sun in winter that might not be coverable without oversizing the battery, but I want to start somewhere.

 

[Yachtsman]

i thought powerwall wasn't that expensive (if you don't do the gateway thing) - at least vs other similar capacities.

Are there any good tools/websites to help you estimate your energy usage and what size you'd need? I average about 12kwh per day not including car which is moved to off-peak. only have a 2.6kw solar array so during peak summer it might have enough excess to trickle charge the car but honestly its too much of a faff so I just do it after midnight. So my home usage would be a mix of off-peak charging the battery, solar topping it up and covering usage during the day when there is sun, and battery when not generating.

Don't know where to start simulating that - sure there are edge cases like a super cloudy week in summer, or the deepest lowest sun in winter that might not be coverable without oversizing the battery, but I want to start somewhere.

Cost per kW stored compares well with other well known makes, but availability is pretty chronic, that’s one of the reasons I’ve changed to a SolarEdge battery. Protection from power cuts is not on my priority list right now since power cuts over the past 10 years have only been minutes, but it can be added if necessary.

 

[Limey]

The GE 5kw hybrid inverter can only output 2.6 to and from the battery.

The 5kw rating is the max it can handle from solar.

The 3kw hybrid can also do 2.6 to and from the battery.

 

[rnbetsy]

I'll probably order a PW3 as soon as it's available (I'm in no rush, but they'll update it eventually).

They'll probably change to LFP batteries like in the SR Model 3's and Megapacks.

Tesla Hints At Transition Of All Energy Storage To LFP Batteries

Tesla CEO Elon Musk said that the company expects to transition all stationary energy storage (ESS) products to the LFP battery chemistry.

insideevs.com

 

[init6]

Are there any good tools/websites to help you estimate your energy usage and what size you'd need? I average about 12kwh per day not including car which is moved to off-peak.

If you have a smart meter you should be able to see data more granular than daily.
This thread also has a lot of good information in it - although it is more geared to sizing the solar:

Solar Panels UK - is it worth it?

 

[Mrklaw]

If you have a smart meter you should be able to see data more granular than daily.
This thread also has a lot of good information in it - although it is more geared to sizing the solar:

Solar Panels UK - is it worth it?

yes I have octopus go and I think that might let me download my data. The myenergi app also lets me see solar generation with reasonable granularity but I can’t work out if I can export that

 

[Garry TheBiz]

LPF would suit the Powerwall much better, and as the insideevs article suggest, weight isn't an issue for a stationary product. Perhaps they'll facilitate a higher discharge rate with the LFP cells, and we'll get some than 5kW continuous.

 

[MrBadger]

Are there any good tools/websites to help you estimate your energy usage and what size you'd need?

I use an off the shelf energy monitor (the EcoEye Smart PV one here Electricity Monitors from Eco-Eye based in Lancing and maybe a better side Electricity monitors - Eco Eye - real time energy monitors) that attaches to a Raspberry Pi with some home brew that reports to PVoutput.org

These energy monitors use to come with some software and a memory card to allow capture and viewing of data on a standalone PC, but I am not sure now - Trax still seems to be a download from the second link above. They look pretty much unchanged in the 6+ years that I have been using them for logging our PV and energy use, so hopefully this feature still exists. It was a bit clunky though, hence why I went for 24/7/365 logging on a Pi, but for what you are after it should be ideal for capturing real data.

The chap that runs EcoEye is very good, so worth a call if you need any more advice.

 

[Garry TheBiz]

Your energy supplier might have some data available in your account if you're already on smart meters. I know Octopus does, which can be a good gauge for establishing what battery size would suit most of your usage. For example, here's mine, whereby I achieve a rough 50/50 split between peak and off peak use.