Preparing for your Model S: Selecting outlet, Solar City, etc.

[jerry33]

Ok all you smart people. I don't know anything about, or ever mess with anything that can electrocute me or burn down the house. I'm getting the HPWC and twin chargers. I want to be able to get the max performance (miles of charge per hour) from the system. My electrician is going to stop by thi week for a heads up planning session. I know nothing.
What specifically do I tell him I need (when all is said and done) for my HPWC? Thanks in advance. I'm gonna print out what yo tell me.

Download this file and give it to your electrician.

 

[FlasherZ]

Download this file and give it to your electrician.

That will give him everything he needs to know.

 

[Princeton96]

Thanks for posting this!

I purchased this same outdoor outlet a week ago and will be having a friend install it in early January.
I've never seen a picture of it with the UMC plugged in and was wondering about how good it would protect against the rain. Glad to see that it acts as a rain shield since it is able to come down a bit from the fully open position.

By the way -- love your nice touch of painting it green and putting a Tesla decal on it!

Aaron

Glad you like my set up. I must admit, I was pretty nervous about the outlet staying dry in the rain. It rained and blew a gale here last night. When I went outside this morning and looked under the cover, it was bone dry. Lost a little sleep over it, however...

I added a cord hanging strap today to keep the excess cord out of the dirt. Here's an updated pic. The hanging strap was found at Home Depot with the bike hooks.

 

[Darmok]

That is a very handsome install, @Princeton. And a handsome car as well!

 

[Al Sherman]

Download this file and give it to your electrician.

Thanks as always and again Jerry. Thanks to Flasher also for confirming.
One more question (for now I guess): As long as the electrician will be doing the work are there any reasons I should also put in the NEMA outlet? Or is that just overkill? Would you do anything else specifically if the wife will eventually be getting an X on the other side of the two car garage? Oops I guess that's two questions.

 

[jerry33]

As long as the electrician will be doing the work are there any reasons I should also put in the NEMA outlet? Or is that just overkill? Would you do anything else specifically if the wife will eventually be getting an X on the other side of the two car garage? Oops I guess that's two questions.

Most Roadster owners indicate that a 14-50 is all most people normally need. The reasons to put in both are:

1. Charging a second car. Chances are very low that both will require a quick charge at the same time.

2. UMCs have been known to fail (there are a lot of posts about bad UMCs). Having both kinds means a failed UMC or HPWC won't prevent you from having a charged car.

3. It's likely to cost less than getting both done at separate times.

Unless there is something unforeseen that occurs, I intend to get both an HPWC and a 14-50.

Note that with the Roadster, it's more efficient to charge at 30-40 amps than 70 amps. If this remains true for the Model S (I don't think anyone has done the studies yet), then you'll likely set your HPWC to 40 amps as well. So when you get your Model X, one will be plugged into the 14-50 and one into the HPWC.

 

[sp4rk]

Signed a contract with Solar City today for installation of solar panels on my townhouse in March. The installation will likely be complete by the time my Model S is delivered so I'll be running on sunshine from day one. That makes me very happy.

Solar panels on a townhouse?
Lucky you.
I tried that on my townhouse ... well, I tried to get permission from my board ... Illinois mandates they say yes. But they did a "clever". They refused to "sell" me or let me "manage" my shingles. So, any time after I installed the panels, they could have me take them down to "replace" their shingles.
You gotta love HOA's.
So I am now selling in Spring so I can go "independent" and solar.

 

[jerry33]

e" my shingles. So, any time after I installed the panels, they could have me taken them down to "replace" their shingles.
You gotta love HOA's.

HOAs are something to be avoided at all costs. I never understood why anyone would purchase a house that was under one, because there is always a you-know-what, on the committee.

 

[goaliemanshark]

Large HOAs suck. My 10 unit complex which in president of... Isn't a problem.

They are beneficial due to limited maintenance.

Also you could threaten to sue your HOA about that BS solar shingle ordeal. That's just silly.

 

[Fedderman]

I had Solar City install my 14-50 on Friday. My minor contribution was the hook to coil up the charging cable.

 

[montgom626]

Glad you like my set up. I must admit, I was pretty nervous about the outlet staying dry in the rain. It rained and blew a gale here last night. When I went outside this morning and looked under the cover, it was bone dry. Lost a little sleep over it, however...

I added a cord hanging strap today to keep the excess cord out of the dirt. Here's an updated pic. The hanging strap was found at Home Depot with the bike hooks.

Nice setup. Can you put a simple cover over the entire assembly? to keep the majority of the rain off the plug?

 

[artsci]

Solar panels on a townhouse?
Lucky you.
I tried that on my townhouse ... well, I tried to get permission from my board ... Illinois mandates they say yes. But they did a "clever". They refused to "sell" me or let me "manage" my shingles. So, any time after I installed the panels, they could have me take them down to "replace" their shingles.
You gotta love HOA's.
So I am now selling in Spring so I can go "independent" and solar.

Don't have permission yet but SolarCity is handling it. I own the house and the shingles to they can't play that game with me.

 

[Princeton96]

Nice setup. Can you put a simple cover over the entire assembly? to keep the majority of the rain off the plug?

Thought about doing that, but it doesn't seem necessary at this point. The plug and outlet have remained dry. Rain is all on the exterior. We don't get much rain here and never any snow. If I was in an area with worse weather, I probably would look in to a different or additional cover.

 

[ModelS8794]

I have a ~90 foot total run from my main panel in the basement to where I'd like the receptacle (either 14-50 or 6-50) in the garage. Currently I have a ~65 foot run of 8/3 NM-B copper hooked up to a 50 Amp breaker. This was for an electric range that we don't use and it's like 90% of the basement run, so I thought I'd reroute it to the garage making the rest of the run only 25 ft or so. Electrician came out, said the 8/3 wiring was improperly installed b/c it should never have been on the 50 amp circuit in the first place, and he'd insist on running #6 wiring on that 50 amp circuit for a 14-50 plug.

Does that sound right to the electricians on the forum here? I was surprised to hear the kitchen range wiring would not be to code, the house was built in 2002 and everything else I have seen looks to be installed in tip-top shape.

I'm also wondering if there's any difference in the wiring I would need for a 14-50 vs a 6-50, specifically whether the 8/3 wiring already in place would be ok for one if not for both. My understanding is even though I have a single charger and need a 40 amp continuous draw, I still need to use a 50 amp circuit breaker. But does that also mean I can't use the 8/3 wiring already in place?

TIA, and apologies if i screwed up terminology asking the above questions

 

[mnx]

I found some 3/3 NMD90 (same as NM-B I believe) locally (home hardware) It's 7$ per foot.

A little pricey, but I don't have to mess around with conduit this way. Makes the upgrade future proof (to upgrade to HPWC) also.

It depends on what your confidence level will be that you'll need >40A charging.

First, I'd forego the idea of using a 14-30 unless you're only going to do overnight charging and you don't anticipate starting your charges with anything less than 50% SOC.

For any needs > 50A (HPWC or 70A J1772 EVSE), you'll need to run conduit and use because you can't get NM-B cable in gauges greater than #6 AWG. C&W2G sells 160' of #3 for $185.60 (assuming 4 wires @ 40 ft each), plus the conduit (1 1/2") and fittings. You're probably looking at roughly $250-300.

Compare this to a 14-50 install... at Home Depot, a 50' roll of NM-B 6/3 runs $118.

Hope this helps make a decision.

Both wire sizes can be used in most 50 amp breakers, so if you install the #3 you can upgrade the breaker and receptacle later.

 

[markb1]

I have a ~90 foot total run from my main panel in the basement to where I'd like the receptacle (either 14-50 or 6-50) in the garage. Currently I have a ~65 foot run of 8/3 NM-B copper hooked up to a 50 Amp breaker. This was for an electric range that we don't use and it's like 90% of the basement run, so I thought I'd reroute it to the garage making the rest of the run only 25 ft or so. Electrician came out, said the 8/3 wiring was improperly installed b/c it should never have been on the 50 amp circuit in the first place, and he'd insist on running #6 wiring on that 50 amp circuit for a 14-50 plug.

Does that sound right to the electricians on the forum here? I was surprised to hear the kitchen range wiring would not be to code, the house was built in 2002 and everything else I have seen looks to be installed in tip-top shape.

I'm also wondering if there's any difference in the wiring I would need for a 14-50 vs a 6-50, specifically whether the 8/3 wiring already in place would be ok for one if not for both. My understanding is even though I have a single charger and need a 40 amp continuous draw, I still need to use a 50 amp circuit breaker. But does that also mean I can't use the 8/3 wiring already in place?

TIA, and apologies if i screwed up terminology asking the above questions

I know that for short distances, 8 AWG is fine, but for long distances, you need 6 AWG. I'm not sure where the cutoff is, but I suspect your electrician is correct.

The only difference in wiring between 14-50 and 6-50 is that there is no neutral wire (the Model S doesn't require neutral) so you could use 6/2 instead of 6/3. If your run of 8/3 is too long for a 14-50, it's too long for a 6-50, as well.

 

[FlasherZ]

I found some 3/3 NMD90 (same as NM-B I believe) locally (home hardware) It's 7$ per foot.

A little pricey, but I don't have to mess around with conduit this way. Makes the upgrade future proof (to upgrade to HPWC) also.

You can use 3/3 because you're in Canada. Those in the US cannot use it.

3/3 NMD90 cable is allowed to be used according to the Canadian Electrical Code, but not the NEC. NEC 334.80 requires that type NM cable -- regardless of its rating -- be used at the 60 degree rating. For #3, that's only 85A, not 100A. "The allowable ampacity shall not exceed that of a 60degC (140degF) rated conductor. The 90degC rating shall be permitted to be used for ampacity adjustment and correction, provided the final derated ampacity does not exceed that of a 60degC rated conductor."

Also, keep in mind that NM cable requires protection, so as long as you keep it in a wall, you're fine. It won't pass inspection if it's exposed below 7' above the floor. Generally, I've found that NM cable bigger than AWG #6 is more costly than running conduit and using THHN anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

I have a ~90 foot total run from my main panel in the basement to where I'd like the receptacle (either 14-50 or 6-50) in the garage. Currently I have a ~65 foot run of 8/3 NM-B copper hooked up to a 50 Amp breaker. This was for an electric range that we don't use and it's like 90% of the basement run, so I thought I'd reroute it to the garage making the rest of the run only 25 ft or so. Electrician came out, said the 8/3 wiring was improperly installed b/c it should never have been on the 50 amp circuit in the first place, and he'd insist on running #6 wiring on that 50 amp circuit for a 14-50 plug.

Does that sound right to the electricians on the forum here? I was surprised to hear the kitchen range wiring would not be to code, the house was built in 2002 and everything else I have seen looks to be installed in tip-top shape.

I'm also wondering if there's any difference in the wiring I would need for a 14-50 vs a 6-50, specifically whether the 8/3 wiring already in place would be ok for one if not for both. My understanding is even though I have a single charger and need a 40 amp continuous draw, I still need to use a 50 amp circuit breaker. But does that also mean I can't use the 8/3 wiring already in place?

TIA, and apologies if i screwed up terminology asking the above questions

NM-B cable must be used at the 60 degree rating (despite containing 90 degree conductors), and NM-B 8/3 is only good to 40A circuit rating at 60 degrees C. You can use 3 #8 THHN conductors in conduit up to 200' for 50A, but not NM-B. #8 leaves very little room for de-rating (e.g., a hot attic), so most electricians just use #6.

As for 6-50 vs. 14-50, it won't matter. You just need one more conductor for the 14-50 (neutral).

 

[dbullard]

I'm upgrading my breaker panel next week (old Federal Pacific Electric), as well as adding the 14-50 plug, and I'd thought I'd share the costs to those who were interested.

The breaker panel replacement will be about $1500. That's on the opposite side of the door where I want the plug to be (the plug will be about 4 ft from the car), so the lines has to run up through the attic over and then back down - that's $290 total (breaker, wiring, plug, labor).

Three contractors bid on it, Solar City was by far the highest. I have other items being done as well (since they're out here), and only one contractor broke everything down into units of work, so it's hard to tell - but both contractors bid about about $2500 and Solar City was $2900.

It should be noted that Solar City didn't come out to inspect the property - it was all done by phone and emailing pictures. I'm in Portland, OR, in case you were wondering.

FYI, it really, really pays to check Angie's List for this kind of stuff (you can now pay for just a month's membership). The first contractor seemed more professional (better web site, nicer truck, uniforms, etc), but checking ratings on Angie's List showed the other contractor to have far better satisfaction and fewer complaints.

Worth knowing.

Only a month or two left to go...

 

[GDH]

I'm upgrading my breaker panel next week (old Federal Pacific Electric), as well as adding the 14-50 plug, and I'd thought I'd share the costs to those who were interested.

The breaker panel replacement will be about $1500. That's on the opposite side of the door where I want the plug to be (the plug will be about 4 ft from the car), so the lines has to run up through the attic over and then back down - that's $290 total (breaker, wiring, plug, labor).

Three contractors bid on it, Solar City was by far the highest. I have other items being done as well (since they're out here), and only one contractor broke everything down into units of work, so it's hard to tell - but both contractors bid about about $2500 and Solar City was $2900.

It should be noted that Solar City didn't come out to inspect the property - it was all done by phone and emailing pictures. I'm in Portland, OR, in case you were wondering.

FYI, it really, really pays to check Angie's List for this kind of stuff (you can now pay for just a month's membership). The first contractor seemed more professional (better web site, nicer truck, uniforms, etc), but checking ratings on Angie's List showed the other contractor to have far better satisfaction and fewer complaints.

Worth knowing.

Only a month or two left to go...

I'm in Portland. Which electrician are you using?

 

[dbullard]

I'm in Portland. Which electrician are you using?

Mike's Electric. Among other things, they quoted an expected low and high end for each part of job, while stating that it could vary based on actual work. Reviews on Angie's List showed that they will sometimes charge less than estimated.

Also, very, very few bad reviews, while they have more total than the other contractor, so it's not just statistical noise.