Preparing for your Model S: Selecting outlet, Solar City, etc.

[Morristhecat]

Take a photo of your service box with the cover off. It'll almost be as good as being there. I've been looking at service boxes for (scribbles on back of envelope) 55 years- gaak!! We'll have fun 2nd guessing your guy!!
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Ok wycolo, here is a photo of my box with the cover off (somehow it rotated 90 degrees left).

The electrician says that the mess of wires at the bottom (right) is why I can't install the wire into this box. There are some physically large breakers that can be replaced with physically smaller ones, so there is room in the panel amperage wise to install the new wire, but not space wise. I am thinking rather than bring the big fat wire in from the bottom, why not bring it in from the top(left) or the side(top/bottom)? If a smaller ground wire needs to go into the bottom, that should squeeze in there somehow, shouldn't it? He went ahead and wired in the nema 14-50 to my parking stall, and brought the fat wire to my box, but hasn't tied it in. I want to figure this out first, and perhaps hire a different electrician if it will save me $2k on installing a whole new breaker box. Thanks.

My breaker box was too small as well so my electrician just ran a dedicated line directly from the source instead.

contaygious - What is a dedicated line direct from the source? Are you having to install a whole new breaker box and wire from the pole?

 

[Lloyd]

Ok wycolo, here is a photo of my box with the cover off (somehow it rotated 90 degrees left).

The electrician says that the mess of wires at the bottom (right) is why I can't install the wire into this box. There are some physically large breakers that can be replaced with physically smaller ones, so there is room in the panel amperage wise to install the new wire, but not space wise. I am thinking rather than bring the big fat wire in from the bottom, why not bring it in from the top(left) or the side(top/bottom)? If a smaller ground wire needs to go into the bottom, that should squeeze in there somehow, shouldn't it? He went ahead and wired in the nema 14-50 to my parking stall, and brought the fat wire to my box, but hasn't tied it in. I want to figure this out first, and perhaps hire a different electrician if it will save me $2k on installing a whole new breaker box. Thanks.

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contaygious - What is a dedicated line direct from the source? Are you having to install a whole new breaker box and wire from the pole?

You have 6 full width breakers. You have room in the box if the panel has the capacity with your other normal usage. I'd say find another electrician and get another opinion.

Lookign again at the photo, you have a relatively light gague aluminum wire feed. This may only be a 50 amp subpanel and be at or over it's capacity already.

 

[jed-99aggie]

Had an electrician out today. SolarCity does not operate in Houston, so their recommended partner Mr. Electric was out for the quote.

Electrician confirmed that my main panel had ample feed and capacity for a NEMA 14-50 outlet. With the main feed lines inside the box, it may even be possible to support the HPC if I was interested (unconfirmed was if the wire from the meter back to the transformer was heavy enough). If not sufficient, it would require digging and laying new wire all the way back to the transformer (the ballpark quote was $3100 in case anyone wants a comparison).

My job seemed fairly straightforward. To install the NEMA 14-50 on the opposite wall of my garage, on the pillar between two garage doors (~30' run 6 AWG) and the 50AMP breaker I was quoted $640. There was possibly some conduit, two access panels for in-wall access, as well and roughly 2 hours of labor.

I recall reading a few jobs posted here in the <$300 range. Was your wire run that much shorter, say just a few feet? Was the wire run done completely inside the wall or did you have the job completed with conduit?

Has anyone else found any other points of consideration in selecting the location of the outlet? Between the two garage doors seems like one of the most flexible locations.

Thanks for your thoughts and continued input.

 

[bbmertz]

I received a quote from Solar City today for a similar simple outlet installation in the Los Angeles area. $750 for installation of a 14-50 NEMA outlet, a 50 amp breaker in an existing panel and running a 25' line from the panel to the outlet at the back of the garage. Quoting process was done quickly and professionally over the phone after I emailed an EV survey specifying my requirements and current electrical setup, along with photos of the breaker panel and outlet location in garage. I was quoted a slightly lower price by a local electrician, but am likely to go with Solar City given their partnership with Tesla and likeliness to stand behind their work. I was immediately emailed a contract to sign, but am delaying doing so until I am ready for installation closer to the end of the year when my Model S is hopefully delivered.

Note that the quoted price excluded county permit fees (for which an estimate was not immediately available, but may range from $75-$200). Is it typical to have permit fees added on top of the work estimate?

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

@bbmertz, SolarCity didn't charge extra for the city inspection for the 14-50 install in my garage last month. It was all done for the $450 that they quoted initially; I had just a few feet worth of cord run btw. My review and pics are a few posts up on this thread.

I'd encourage you to go ahead with the install sooner than later. There was a 4+ week lag between when I signed the contract and when they could schedule the installation. OTOH, summer's usually a busier period for them than Fall...

 

[neroden]

Ok wycolo, here is a photo of my box with the cover off (somehow it rotated 90 degrees left).

The electrician says that the mess of wires at the bottom (right) is why I can't install the wire into this box.

Morris -- get an electrician who's willing to rearrange the wires in the box. There aren't *too many* wires, they're just arranged suboptimally.

This is a tedious process (all the lights will go out...) and will take many hours of high-paid electrical work, but you'll end up with a cleaner box.

 

[wycolo]

> here is a photo of my box with the cover off [Morristhecat]

As Lloyd said!

Looks like its fed with 4ga Alum wire good for 55 Amps max!!. You need new wire feed from meter & a new 200 Amp box which will provide much needed elbow room. This setup is below marginal; time to enter the modern age.
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[neroden]

> here is a photo of my box with the cover off [Morristhecat]

As Lloyd said!

Looks like its fed with 4ga Alum wire good for 55 Amps max!!. You need new wire feed from meter & a new 200 Amp box which will provide much needed elbow room. This setup is below marginal; time to enter the modern age.
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Ooh, right. I didn't notice the small aluminum feed. Bad. Look to see if that's actually a subpanel (is there a main panel hidden away somewhere else?)

If not, be aware that buyers will avoid buying your house until the electrical service is upgraded; I, for instance, rejected a house because it had only 50 amp service. It really is very substandard nowadays, and you can find a lot of stuff on the web saying "don't buy a house with less than 100 amp service".

This is something worth fixing *regardless* of whether you're getting an electric car, assuming you own your house and have substantial equity in it; it will both make you happier and increase the resale value immediately.

 

[johnnyS]

Southern California Edison has lower rates if we install a second meter for car charging. Has anyone installed a second meter to take advantage of lower rates?

 

[dsm363]

Southern California Edison has lower rates if we install a second meter for car charging. Has anyone installed a second meter to take advantage of lower rates?

A second meter was talked about a little here but not sure if this is the information you're looking for or not:
Time-of-Use Service VS Standard Service dilemma for Los Angeles DWP?

 

[PureAmps]

I just wanted to give a shout out to Solar City. I posted this earlier on the TM forums:

Solar City just installed a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage today (SF Bay Area). The work was performed by a very friendly and professional crew and at a very good price. They showed up on time, got the job done quickly and even did a thorough job cleaning up after themselves. I think my garage was cleaner after they left!

Here's a shot of my new "gas pump":

 

[GenIIIOwner]

What options do I have for any EV if it would stay outside and never be in my garage?

 

[Robert.Boston]

NEMA 14-50 plugs are regularly used at RV parks; there's no reason you must be in a garage to use one safely to charge your Model S.

 

[strider]

What options do I have for any EV if it would stay outside and never be in my garage?

If you'll always park in the same place (like your driveway) then I would get the HPWC and have it installed on a pedestal. This is the most expensive option but is the cleanest. Otherwise you could have a 14-50 in an outdoor enclosure installed (like Robert was saying) and you could leave the UMC in your trunk and plug it when you get home.

 

[GSP]

I would not plug and unplug a 14-50 every day. The plug and socket are not rated for 10,000 mate/unmate cycles like the J1772 connectors (and presumedly Tesla's proprietary connector). I also would recommend turning off the breaker when plugging or unplugging a 14-50. RV park enclosures have the breaker right next to the plug to make this convenient.

I agree an HPWC is the best solution for an outdoor installation. If you use a 14-50 and UMC instead, I would leave it plugged in most of the time.

GSP

 

[Robert.Boston]

I would not plug and unplug a 14-50 every day. The plug and socket are not rated for 10,000 mate/unmate cycles like the J1772 connectors (and presumedly Tesla's proprietary connector). I also would recommend turning off the breaker when plugging or unplugging a 14-50. RV park enclosures have the breaker right next to the plug to make this convenient.

I agree an HPWC is the best solution for an outdoor installation. If you use a 14-50 and UMC instead, I would leave it plugged in most of the time.

GSP

Considering that I can replace a 14-50 receptacle for under $14, I'm not too concerned about wearing one out! I can buy a lot of those for the cost of an HPWC.

 

[GenIIIOwner]

Considering that I can replace a 14-50 receptacle for under $14, I'm not too concerned about wearing one out! I can buy a lot of those for the cost of an HPWC.

Yes, but if I buy a car with dual on board chargers am I able to take use of them with NEMA 14-50? What cord and/or how would I connect the car to the wall?

 

[Cottonwood]

Considering that I can replace a 14-50 receptacle for under $14, I'm not too concerned about wearing one out! I can buy a lot of those for the cost of an HPWC.

I agree that the 14-50R is inexpensive and is easy to change, but do put some value on your time to do the change. There is also the plug side of the 14-50, but that is even easier to change and you can get that from Tesla. If I were to do this, as mentioned earlier, I would get one of those weather proof RV park enclosures with a built in 50A breaker. On those dark and stormy, wet nights, it would give me peace of mind to turn off the breaker before I made the connections.

 

[ElSupreme]

Yes, but if I buy a car with dual on board chargers am I able to take use of them with NEMA 14-50? What cord and/or how would I connect the car to the wall?

You will be able to charge your dual charger car just fine. But the NEMA 14-50 plug would limit your charge rate where it wouldn't matter if you had dual chargers or not. You need an EVSE to fully take advantage of the dual chargers. Either the Tesla HPWC or other 100A 240VAC EVSE.

 

[cinergi]

Just be aware that even tho you can replace the plug cheaply, you won't necessarily know when it has broken down past the safe point - e.g. Heats up and sets fire to your house.

I left my roadster UMC plugged in on a live circuit at all times except a major snow storm (mostly so I could snow thrower it) - I lived in an area where I felt comfortable leaving it out. Could maybe find a way to lock the cord down if that's a concern.