President of GM taught us what it takes for EV to go mainstream

[SouthSeas]

Most people who can afford a tesla have the option for home charging.

You need to check around. It's not an issue of "afford". The problem is current EVs are not well supported for many especially those living in urban environments. Townhouses are also not EV friendly.

And no, the jury is not out on batteries and motors. They also don't cost 20k. Take an extra couple hours on a long trip, but save thousands of dollars in fuel and maintenance a year and countless hours of time. That math is not difficult.

If Tesla knew the drive line would last for 500,000 miles they would do better than the 100,000 mile warranty the car comes with.

I always tell people that the only downside is long trips, but there are some benefits in long trips as well. People are bad at recognizing opportunity cost and forget about the hassles with gas vehicles because they are so used to them.

​

Until chargers become much more prevalent EVs will have clear disadvantages. Even without the issues of charging the range is very much impacted in the cold weather making the car more of a bother. My truck gets the same 400 miles to a tank, season in and season out and I can get gas every 10 miles along any highway in the civilized world. Then there are always the Tesla unique issues.

 

[SouthSeas]

People are bad at recognizing opportunity cost and forget about the hassles with gas vehicles because they are so used to them. ​

Plus don't forget all the health problems that come with gas stations. I was at a Shell station over the holiday weekend and it literally said that inhaling gas vapors has been shown to cause cancer. Not to mention the tens of thousands of premature deaths caused by gas and diesel emissions in the US alone.

If I'm not mistaken, in the state of California, the car itself (the Tesla car) is considered to contain parts that cause cancer. It is hard to manufacture electronics without including parts that are labeled as such.

 

[Runt8]

My truck gets the same 400 miles to a tank, season in and season out...

No it doesn’t, unless you’re in So-cal and your seasons are spring, spring, summer, and spring...

Fuel Economy in Cold Weather

 

[Nocturnal]

You need to check around. It's not an issue of "afford". The problem is current EVs are not well supported for many especially those living in urban environments. Townhouses are also not EV friendly.

If Tesla knew the drive line would last for 500,000 miles they would do better than the 100,000 mile warranty the car comes with.


​

Until chargers become much more prevalent EVs will have clear disadvantages. Even without the issues of charging the range is very much impacted in the cold weather making the car more of a bother. My truck gets the same 400 miles to a tank, season in and season out and I can get gas every 10 miles along any highway in the civilized world. Then there are always the Tesla unique issues.

Your truck does not get the same range in all weather conditions. And yes, most people who can afford a Tesla live in single family homes or have parking garage access that can or should have charging options.

If I'm not mistaken, in the state of California, the car itself (the Tesla car) is considered to contain parts that cause cancer. It is hard to manufacture electronics without including parts that are labeled as such.

Now you are arguing that a Tesla is as likely to give you cancer as ICE exhaust?​

 

[SouthSeas]

No it doesn’t, unless you’re in So-cal and your seasons are spring, spring, summer, and spring...

Fuel Economy in Cold Weather

I get about 20 mpg and my repeatability is ±1 mpg. I don't really care what web sites say about how much my mileage should vary. It is within ±5%, virtually always.

If you read the web site carefully, they talk about a lot of things that might or might not impact your mileage and other things that impact your mileage more or less. The numbers they give are for 20°F vs. 77°F. It doesn't get to 20°F here often and even less often during the day when I do most of my driving. So the bottom line is the data on that web page is irrelevant to a lot wider range of the country than southern California. I'm mid-Atlantic.

 

[SouthSeas]

Your truck does not get the same range in all weather conditions. And yes, most people who can afford a Tesla live in single family homes or have parking garage access that can or should have charging options.

Now you are arguing that a Tesla is as likely to give you cancer as ICE exhaust?​

Ask the state of California. I think the point being discussed was the cancer risk from spending 5 minutes putting gas in your car vs spending an hour at a gas station charging your Tesla.

 

[ggr]

Ask the state of California. I think the point being discussed was the cancer risk from spending 5 minutes putting gas in your car vs spending an hour at a gas station charging your Tesla.

Ridiculous. In 10 years of driving Teslas, including long road trips, I have never spent any time charging one at a gas station.

 

[RFernatt]

Ridiculous. In 10 years of driving Teslas, including long road trips, I have never spent any time charging one at a gas station.

Depends on where you are. Most of the SCs I use are at gas stations. Of course, the chargers aren't that close to the pumps so it's not like you're breathing the fumes like standing around the pumps. And, I'm usually inside for a restroom break, coffee, snack, lounge area, while charging.

 

[focher]

If I'm not mistaken, in the state of California, the car itself (the Tesla car) is considered to contain parts that cause cancer. It is hard to manufacture electronics without including parts that are labeled as such.

In California, almost everything is considered to be a cancer risk. It's the Prop 65 warning. You can either look at it as an example of Californians being ridiculous to have to label everything as a cancer risk, or consider how awful it is we've created a society where so many things are a cancer risk.

 

[StealthP3D]

Yep, days like today an EV is kind of inconvenient.

View attachment 482491

At a charging stop on the way to Madison at the moment. Second one in a row with no open services because of the holiday. Just walked across a four-lane divided Highway to find a bathroom.



I love my car, but anyone that denies they can be an inconvenience is deluding themselves.

I find both of our Model 3's more convenient and I am not known for deluding myself.

Just the lack of regular service visits makes it a no-contest. I also appreciate being able to defrost remotely without worry. And waking up every morning with a "full tank" is priceless.

 

[focher]

I really like how the inconvenience of a one time out of 100 refueling activities is the complaining part. If it takes you 30 minutes a couple of times per year, you are still way ahead on the time commitment.

 

[TomB985]

I find both of our Model 3's more convenient and I am not known for deluding myself.

Just the lack of regular service visits makes it a no-contest. I also appreciate being able to defrost remotely without worry. And waking up every morning with a "full tank" is priceless.

You're cherry picking.

I never said the car was an inconvenience to own. Simply that there are some cases where it can be, and I was highlighting one of them. That it.

And if you think your car will never require service, I think you will be disappointed someday. There are LOTS of things that can break on a car that have nothing to do with the powertrain.

 

[focher]

You're cherry picking.
And if you think your car will never require service, I think you will be disappointed someday.

That is not at all what he wrote. The sentence was clearly referring to regular maintenance service like oil and filter changes.

 

[E Dizzle]

Ask the state of California. I think the point being discussed was the cancer risk from spending 5 minutes putting gas in your car vs spending an hour at a gas station charging your Tesla.

except I don't worry about inhaling carcinogens while charging an EV. Also an EV doesn't contribute to tens of thousands of deaths through their carcinogenic parts. completely different.

 

[SouthSeas]

Ridiculous. In 10 years of driving Teslas, including long road trips, I have never spent any time charging one at a gas station.

What can I tell you. CA is a Tesla state where they have charging stations with up to 40 bays. Here many Tesla charging stations are at gas stations, Sheetz or Wawa in this neck of the woods. The route I've been driving lets me charge at a Sheetz twice a week for the last year and a half.

 

[SouthSeas]

In California, almost everything is considered to be a cancer risk. It's the Prop 65 warning. You can either look at it as an example of Californians being ridiculous to have to label everything as a cancer risk, or consider how awful it is we've created a society where so many things are a cancer risk.

Turns out it is the latter.

 

[SouthSeas]

Depends on where you are. Most of the SCs I use are at gas stations. Of course, the chargers aren't that close to the pumps so it's not like you're breathing the fumes like standing around the pumps. And, I'm usually inside for a restroom break, coffee, snack, lounge area, while charging.

The most dangerous stuff at a gas station is the food inside. You really didn't know that?

 

[RFernatt]

The most dangerous stuff at a gas station is the food inside. You really didn't know that?

It's a Sheetz, so at least they offer some alternatives. I'm generally after coffee and some peanut M&Ms if you must know, but thanks for your concern. It's not like I can buy organic brussel sprout infused water from a Peruvian glacier at the local Whole Foods for $8 a liter.

 

[ralph142]

It's a Sheetz, so at least they offer some alternatives. I'm generally after coffee and some peanut M&Ms if you must know, but thanks for your concern. It's not like I can buy organic brussel sprout infused water from a Peruvian glacier at the local Whole Foods for $8 a liter.

they don’t have that in the organic isle at your sheetz ? Must be a small one. Lol, back in the day the one sheetz in Indiana (pa) had an organic shelf with about 3 items on it, usually local apples, corn and maple syrup.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I agree with the poster who wrote Cost, Cost, Cost.
Cost drives demand drives infrastructure.
200 EPA and especially 240 EPA (the current batch of 240 miles are driven by the CARB credit limit) covers an incredibly high proportion of trips, and likely 100% for some vehicles in a multi vehicle household.
Make them cheap, it'll expand the infrastructure, and then range is just an option for which you might want to pay for some vehicles.

Reuss was just stuck in ICE thinking, where you always refuel at a gas station.