Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

PSA: Use PIN-To-Drive or Keycard if you have small children

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Most people keep matches out of reach of children because they don't want their children to do stupid things.
Sometimes this requires matches not being in the house. :) Damn resourceful kids.

One of my kids, as a toddler I had to lock their door from the outside at night. That's about as scary as it sounds, in case of fire or whatever, but ultimately on balance was the safest thing to do for them. <edit> I have now let this one drive my car but only, and perhaps forever, with me in the passenger seat. :p In Chill, naturally.
 
I'm confused why people are arguing this.

The car should not accelerate with no weight and no seatbelts in the driver seat period. There's something weird with the interlocks if pressing the accelerator quickly let's you accelerate.

Doesnt matter if you are worried about child safety or not, that's still a buggy behavior we should be asking Tesla to fix.
 
The car should not accelerate with no weight and no seatbelts in the driver seat period.

My car, I can drive it without seatbelts if I want to!** :p

The weight required to trigger the "I'm here" is fairly low, and it needs to be fairly low because sub-100lb adults with feet on the floor, arms leveraging on the wheel and arms, etc, aren't going to put much force into the seat bottom.

** On private property.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: davewill
Or trying to hit it quickly meant hitting it harder/deeper, also. I haven't bothered to test it yet.

I don’t know exactly, but I can say I did not hit it deep - I have a P3D, my door was open, my seat belt off, and I wasn’t sitting in the seat, so I was careful to not demand significant acceleration. It was more than parking-lot “touch”; I did get to 8mph pretty briskly.

But overall not too relevant to the safety issue; only relevant to reproducing the results.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SammichLover

My car, I can drive it without seatbelts if I want to!** :p

The weight required to trigger the "I'm here" is fairly low, and it needs to be fairly low because sub-100lb adults with feet on the floor, arms leveraging on the wheel and arms, etc, aren't going to put much force into the seat bottom.

** On private property.

OPs example and video involves a child on the floor. I'm not concerned about some weird examples where someone has some weight on the seat.

OPs example has no weight on the seat and seems to imply some sort of race condition with interlocks.
 
The head was on the seat, right? A disproportionate % of a toddler's mass is in their head.

Maybe the interlocks have a weird timing thing, but I wasn't able to get D to engage with zero weight. A 7lb carrying bag was enough, though.

Feel free to explore the weight sensor location. I suspect it is in the bucket of the seat, not the front edge. But I do not know. Easy enough to find out. The one in the Model X has at least 2 thresholds for weight (the output is not just two states) - not sure how many in Model 3 - but fairly sure it is not just On/Off.

There are three interlocks for rollaway protection: door open, seat belt, and driver occupancy sensor. Right now 2 of those being bad engages rollaway protection. I’d be ok with pretty draconian protections in the case of all 3 being bad, to help reduce risk. It’s possible acceleration is limited in my special “defeating” case (no way to really tell - but I did not sense it). Certainly not limited enough, obviously.

These details are really up to Tesla, but I suspect it would not be hard to tweak things in such a way that it is safer, but no one ever notices.
 
Sort of beside the point but I have polled two coworkers and both have let their kids into the front seat of their cars so it can't be that uncommon. One even has a Model 3 and a Model S :eek:. She insisted there was no way a toddler could hit the brake and pull the drive lever at the same time (as was also my initial intuition). I told her I was going to call CPS :D.
Obviously after I showed her that it is possible she is going to be way more cautious in the future.
 
Sort of beside the point but I have polled two coworkers and both have let their kids into the front seat of their cars so it can't be that uncommon. One even has a Model 3 and a Model S :eek:. She insisted there was no way a toddler could hit the brake and pull the drive lever at the same time (as was also my initial intuition). I told her I was going to call CPS :D.
Obviously after I showed her that it is possible she is going to be way more cautious in the future.
Did you ask them if they leave loaded guns laying around? Sounds like they must. :)
 
Did you ask them if they leave loaded guns laying around? Sounds like they must. :)
I definitely ribbed them a bit. Haha. Personally I think it's fine to let kids into the front seat of a car with a traditional key which was the case for the other coworker. People just need to realize that Teslas are different which is the point of this thread.
 
Also, ok so you call this a "safety issue", but there are all kinds of "safety issues" if you restrict the "safety issue" requirements

execute all of the above movements in the right sequence, and can open the driver's door, and you leave him/her unattended to do all of the above

First, it isn't hard to execute - simply press brake, pull down on stalk, and then press the accelerator. It is so simple a two-year-old could do it. I've seen two-year-olds riding and operating bicycles, so I really don't see why people find this so improbable, if the child has access to the vehicle. As mentioned above, it's also not hard for an advanced enough two-year-old to open the door. I mean, we are human beings, and extremely capable and smart. Our children are the same, and often smarter.

Going to the "safety issue". One of the biggest factors with safety in general is awareness. It seems that people are discounting this, and it's basically the entire reason for my post, and why I want users to LET PEOPLE WITH SMALL CHILDREN KNOW. It is not uncommon to educate parents on dangers. For example, people are generally AWARE of the extreme danger of feeding infants honey, and they are AWARE that giving aspirin to a child younger than age 3 is dangerous and can be fatal. How do they know that? Should they just "know it"? Of course not. Someone had to TELL them.

It is NOT immediately obvious (as evidenced by so many of the comments from people here about how this could ever happen) that the Model 3 can be made to move so easily; hence, education and awareness. I am willing to bet that quite a few people here had the general response & question "wouldn't the interlocks engage"? The answer is obviously NO, not necessarily. So, education and awareness, folks. This is something to be aware of. It doesn't mean you have to freak out, but you can take simple steps.

If my post means one more locked & closed house-to-garage door, or some extra care on the part of parents with respect to keeping their phone key away from their child (it's not uncommon for some parents to briefly give their kids a phone to play a game to occupy them), a few more "high risk" cars with PIN-to-drive turned on, and a little more care in general, then it's worth it. It's all about reducing risk (particularly for people who deem themselves in a high risk category) of an already improbable event, but an event that has quite dire consequences.

Doesn't matter if you are worried about child safety or not, that's still a buggy behavior we should be asking Tesla to fix.

Exactly. And I have notified Tesla.

I really don't understand the complaints either. People buy the Model 3 because it is the safest (or one of the safest) sedans on the road today. In this very specific situation, it is very clearly not as safe as most other vehicles; there is one fewer step required to accelerate the vehicle.

If you engage PIN-to-drive, it immediately makes Model 3 the SAFEST car in this regard, for a misbehaving mischievous toddler to run amuck in. I'm not saying you'd want that in general, but it provides the protection.

And hopefully Tesla will consider modifying the interlock function slightly as well. Likely no one will notice the change...the car will just get safer with a simple software update!
 
I think there's a major logic flaw that makes parents believe a child cannot reach the brakes and put the car in D because they can't sit on the seat and reach the pedal. Only thing is, as evident in OP's photo, kids don't always sit on the seat. They can be "standing" on the pedals and pulling levers with their arms up and the right combination is going to send the car launching forward. I've seen two year olds use iPads better than some adults and when they see their parents type in the pin code they'll learn to do it too. The only solution is for parents to not allow their kids in the driver's seat at all.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: davewill
I've seen two year olds use iPads better than some adults and when they see their parents type in the pin code they'll learn to do it too. The only solution is for parents to not allow their kids in the driver's seat at all.

I agree that it does not provide 100% protection, but it actually makes it SUBSTANTIALLY more difficult. Here's how:

1) In order to bring up the PIN-to-drive dialog, the very small child has to push the brake pedal.

2) They then have to climb back up to be able to access the screen and enter the PIN.

3) If the door is open, and they then clamber back into the footwell area, they will unweight the seat sensor, and PIN-to-drive will re-engage and require it to be entered again. This does not happen if the door is closed (I think), so that is a small gap in protection.

So the huge factor here is the time - extends the time from less than 5 seconds to something more like 30 seconds to 1 minute for a small child, and the dramatically reduced probability of the sequence being successfully accomplished. I don't want to give people the impression that enabling PIN-to-drive means they should let their kids play in the car unsupervised - it just provides more protection. But the current situation without PIN-to-drive is that the kids shouldn't play in the car even when SUPERVISED (for example, a toddler clambering around supervised by a parent sitting in the passenger seat waiting for the other parent to return is NOT ok).

Obviously for a large enough child PIN-to-drive is not really protection - I've outlined the complicated set of steps required for that case in another thread, and there are really no guarantees with a fully-formed human being who can easily access your vehicle. If your teenager really wants to take a joyride, you will likely not be stopping them.
 
Last edited: