Yep. And given Tesla has stated Range charges have a minor cumulative impact, I don't think you're ever going to get a new battery due to extra degradation caused by excessive range charging.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Range Charge Daily due to New Warranty announcement?
- Thread starter chicagotsla
- Start date
steve841
Active Member
I'm not sure what "have a little extra charge" means, from a battery chemistry perspective. Can you elaborate?
Puyallup Bill
Member
Another "Really?"
I'll range charge when I anticipate the need or the cushion - just like in the past.
JerryNycom
Member
Elon specifically said he doesn't want people "thinking" about how to treat the batteries. Thats why the new 8 year warranty on the batteries. They want us to plug in when we can and not think about what effects it will cause and range charge and all that happy horse SH*T. Most people on the forums understand this, but people like my wife just want to plug it and forget it!
That the capacity of the batteries when brand new is slightly higher than the promised capacity, but that extra amount degrades quickly. That's what I seemed to observe, since you are supposed to only get 265 rated miles for a full range charge in the 85kWh Model S, but when brand new it had a 272 mile charge. After just a few weeks where I hadn't driven much the capacity was down to the promised 265 miles.
a few comments
- the change in mileage your seeing could possibly be due to refined calculations in software. I don't think we'll ever be able to confirm that though. did you just notice it lower one day e.g. one day it was '241' and the next time you noticed it was '236', or did you start seeing '241', then '240', then '239', then '238', etc? the latter would lead me to believe actual degradation as opposed to a software formula change during an update.
- it would not surprise me if the actual battery size is "a little extra bigger" than stated. if I was designing the car, that is exactly what I would do, and use the extra battery capacity for internal "safety" (so really hard to brick if left unplugged for very long time) and probably also helps "slow" degradation a bit from our perspective not knowing its a little bigger.
- for those seeing a little battery degradation already, two questions: 1) are you charging every night using NEMA 14-50 or HPWC. just curious if we start to see a trend where degradation occurs faster with HPWC. and 2) do you charge during the day or is your car left unplugged all day and only plugged in at night?
as for me, i'm at 3700 miles (since march 6th), and I'm still showing at least 241 every morning, though I thought it said 242 or 243 this morning right after completion. in either case, definitely no degradation seen here after 3700.
aviators, a standard charge of 235 seems pretty bad to me, I hope it gets addressed by Tesla.
The first time I range charged I got 270+ but the next two times I only got ~267. I wonder if there is a first range charge bonus effect or something.
I'm at 4800 miles and still getting 242-243 right after a standard charge. Also, a couple weeks ago I went down to -2 miles (rated hit 0 when I was two miles from the Supercharger), and the next charge went to 245.
The first time I range charged I got 270+ but the next two times I only got ~267. I wonder if there is a first range charge bonus effect or something.
I'm at 4800 miles and still getting 242-243 right after a standard charge. Also, a couple weeks ago I went down to -2 miles (rated hit 0 when I was two miles from the Supercharger), and the next charge went to 245.
The OP (chicagotsla) didn't say much in the initial post so it's kind of wide open what was intended. That said, my impression from the title was something more like "Maybe I should consider range charging more often to induce an early need for battery replacement so that perhaps I might get a > 300 mi. replacement battery option within the 8yr warranty period."
If that was indeed the intent, the question is about 100+ additional miles of battery capacity in < 8 years rather no 20-30 additional miles for near-term daily charges.
Which reminds me (indirectly) ... Has the battery replacement option expired yet? And has anything been said by Tesla recently about being "stuck with" an 85 kWh battery at the 8yr mark if there are, say, 120 kWh batteries being made at the time? I realize there was the discussion today about "just take the loaner instead", but I'd want to keep my Signature vehicle and upgrade the battery instead.
Exactly this. Lithium batteries degrade the fastest when they are new - the first year of ownership should see the highest rate of capacity loss which will gradually slow down.
The best way to measure actual capacity of your pack is going to be to drain the pack down to a low level (say 30 miles rated charge) and then charge the car back up (standard charge is fine) while measuring the amount of energy that goes in to the car from the wall (not what the car reports). Repeat another time or two and make sure you also note ambient temperatures since the temperature of the pack will change the amount of energy the pack can hold.
As far as range charging habits due to the warranty announcement, if I had a Model S I absolutely would not change my behavior. First of all, capacity loss is still not warranted and range charging will cause capacity loss to happen faster. It might expose a weak cell/module faster than if you didn't, but if it doesn't you'll just be stuck with a more degraded pack afterwards. Never mind the moral implications of abusing things just because someone else will suffer the consequences...
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Although it's off topic, for those discussing the range drop, don't assume that it's necessarily battery degredation. It could also be:
-Pack balancing issue.
-Range calculation algorithm.
-Failed module/cells.
Just be careful about making assumptions, that's all.
-Pack balancing issue.
-Range calculation algorithm.
-Failed module/cells.
Just be careful about making assumptions, that's all.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
A linear approximation of 500 cycles to 70% degradation (a fairly conservative assumption) means Range charging 100% instead Standard charge of 90% will cost you 0.006% of your capacity.
If used occasionally, it's pretty much negligible.
Used Everyday: you lose 2.19% extra per year
2 per week: 0.624% per year
Every week: 0.312% per year
Every 2 weeks: 0.156% per year
Every month: 0.072% per year
I don't know why people hesitate to use it when going on occasional longer trips. You can in fact use it even for every weekend trip and the impact won't be very huge.
If used occasionally, it's pretty much negligible.
Used Everyday: you lose 2.19% extra per year
2 per week: 0.624% per year
Every week: 0.312% per year
Every 2 weeks: 0.156% per year
Every month: 0.072% per year
I don't know why people hesitate to use it when going on occasional longer trips. You can in fact use it even for every weekend trip and the impact won't be very huge.
Tesla does not warranty the range. They warranty that the pack WORKS. After eight years in Range mode the pack will still work just fine - it just won't carry you as far.
Do not hesitate to use Range mode for long trips. But don't leave your car sitting in Range mode for months at a time. It will inconvenience you, not Tesla.
Do not hesitate to use Range mode for long trips. But don't leave your car sitting in Range mode for months at a time. It will inconvenience you, not Tesla.
I'm down to 238/239 in 3600 miles, charging on a 240V/30A Blink Level 2 charger every night. I do think the calculations are refined over time, as both of the times I drove down to the yellow the charge the following day was 242/243 vs my usual 240/241 at the time.
As I mentioned in another thread, it seemed pretty sudden, so at the time I thought it was a software update. So I checked with everyone else I knew and there was no change for them. The suddenness of it could also mean a failure of a pack or group, so hopefully they will be able to check for that next week.
I use the HPWC. I only plug in at night (actually, early in the morning, utilizing the scheduled charge).
Just to bring this thread back on topic.
Why would you ever want to do a range charge everyday. Use it when you think you might need it. Remember one of the great things about an EV is you leave every morning with a new charge. Unless you plan to drive over 200 miles (85kw) why would you consider doing something that might have a long term ill effect on your vehicle?
Why would you ever want to do a range charge everyday. Use it when you think you might need it. Remember one of the great things about an EV is you leave every morning with a new charge. Unless you plan to drive over 200 miles (85kw) why would you consider doing something that might have a long term ill effect on your vehicle?
artsci
Sponsor
Agree. And won't Tesla know about this kind of deliberate abuse via the logs? That would be a clear basis for denial of coverage.
Ven Rala
Member
Of course range charging every day is a bad idea and very inefficient. But with the new announcement I am less worried about the battery if there is degradation due me range charging once a week or once a month. If there is significant degradation (>10-15%) over 4 years, I think Tesla will cover replacement of the battery if it has been used in a reasonable manner.
Similar threads
- Question
