Realistic Range with the Short-Range Battery

[Shock-On-T]

You are calculating with LR numbers and I am calculating with SR numbers.

The point is that it's a different paradigm with EV to ICE, in that you want to arrive at your destination with as little 'fuel' as possible, because then the car can refuel without you waiting on it, which an ICE can't do.
This makes charge time calcs different than just journey distance divided by charging speed.
Eg. an 800 mile trip has more than double the charge time of a 400 mile trip, but a 200 mile trip has zero charge time.

ICE tank %

EV batt %

 

[voip-ninja]

That assumes that you are going to a destination with rapid charging.

Despite the number of charging stations available, there are still enormous stretches of the country that not only have no super-charger network but also have no 50 amp charge service of any kind.

For me, I want the M3 to be able to make the short "day trips" I enjoy, where I might drive for a couple of hours to a fun place in the middle of nowhere. I then need enough range to return until I am close enough to a charger to replenish the battery. Charging at the destination is almost definitely not an option and I don't want to make huge detours to charge the vehicle, which is necessary with current Tesla infrastructure.

When I take these trips in a gasoline vehicle I can bring an extra 200 or so miles of range in a couple of jerry cans. Currently not an option for EVs.

 

[Eclectic]

No, with the LR just one stop would be required.
It's about 400 miles SF to LA, and the LR has about 300 miles range. You'd need an extra 100 miles in charging, which is about 20 minutes charging at 300mph. Call it a 30 min stop and you're totally covered.
Also, don't forget that charging is more pleasant than refueling. You don't have to stand there holding the pump, or go and pay. Just plug in, wander off, toilet break, get a coffee, walk back to car, check a few emails on your phone, unplug and leave.

To get the 300 mile range you have to have ideal conditions, and that is far from what one experiences on a trip in California. And if they assume that you're driving 60 mph to get 300 miles of range, that ain't gonna happen on I5. Just using the range estimator on the Model S page for a 75, you go from 292 rated miles at 60 mph to 241 at 70 mph. And if you drive 70 mph on I5, you're going to be one of the slowest cars on that road (and you'll get the attendant nastiness).

PLUS, there's the issue of arriving in LA with very little range left. The OP stated the purpose of the trip was to visit parents. What happens when you arrive in LA and then want to take the parents out for dinner, or to a ball game, or you want to see friends in the valley a few hours later, etc.?

Can you make it from SF to LA with one charging stop? Sure. It would be a very miserable trip. Two stops is what reality requires.

 

[gregincal]

That assumes that you are going to a destination with rapid charging.

Despite the number of charging stations available, there are still enormous stretches of the country that not only have no super-charger network but also have no 50 amp charge service of any kind.

For me, I want the M3 to be able to make the short "day trips" I enjoy, where I might drive for a couple of hours to a fun place in the middle of nowhere. I then need enough range to return until I am close enough to a charger to replenish the battery. Charging at the destination is almost definitely not an option and I don't want to make huge detours to charge the vehicle, which is necessary with current Tesla infrastructure.

When I take these trips in a gasoline vehicle I can bring an extra 200 or so miles of range in a couple of jerry cans. Currently not an option for EVs.

This is my main reason for a LR car. Driving where there aren't superchargers. Even in California there are a lot of places you might want to go that don't have superchargers.

 

[SageBrush]

For me, I want the M3 to be able to make the short "day trips" I enjoy, where I might drive for a couple of hours to a fun place in the middle of nowhere. I then need enough range to return until I am close enough to a charger to replenish the battery. Charging at the destination is almost definitely not an option and I don't want to make huge detours to charge the vehicle, which is necessary with current Tesla infrastructure.

Sure, that makes fine sense.
Just do not generalize it to broad statements like you have been making since it is a lot more common to arrive at a destination and charge to full overnight with L2 or better.

 

[SageBrush]

And if they assume that you're driving 60 mph to get 300 miles of range

They are not

 

[scaesare]

from my personal experience, with my P85, im probably losing somewhere between 15-20% because i am driving 75-80mph and running AC all the time.

Really? I can get rated range at 70-75 with AC.

 

[gregincal]

Sure, that makes fine sense.
Just do not generalize it to broad statements like you have been making since it is a lot more common to arrive at a destination and charge to full overnight with L2 or better.

Even in California a huge majority of destinations don't have destination chargers. If I want to do a weekend trip and charge where I'm going I need to pick carefully. I'd rather have the range to make the round trip without worrying.

 

[kev1n]

Really? I can get rated range at 70-75 with AC.

i drive very spiritedly. dont know if consumption is more on P vs Non P? also i have the 21's

 

[scaesare]

i drive very spiritedly. dont know if consumption is more on P vs Non P? also i have the 21's

Ah, I know the bigger wheels hurt.

 

[chronopc]

Same here



That would be really annoying. What's the range on a P85D?

My current vehicle can make the SF --> LA trip without a stop for gas, with about 80 miles of range left. However, I often make one stop just for a bathroom break and I top up the gas in case something crazy happens at the grapevine since I'm already stopped. Still, that's like 30 minutes tops. I can live with 1 45 minute break. 2 of those would feel REALLY long as it's such a boring drive. I'd really have to reconsider taking the M3 when doing that trip then and just using my current vehicle.

That's exactly what I would like to be able to do. Stop once to eat and use the bathroom. Sound like with the LR Model 3 that will be feasible with some conservative driving.

 

[alseTrick]

Do you have a philosophical objection to SC use ?

I do. The more you stop the longer it takes. Several stops can add significant duration to the trip.

 

[voip-ninja]

Sure, that makes fine sense.
Just do not generalize it to broad statements like you have been making since it is a lot more common to arrive at a destination and charge to full overnight with L2 or better.

Do you really think that ti's "common" to arrive at a destination away from home and fully charge overnight?

I think you frequent different places than some of us frequent.

I get it.... lots of people make trips to a vacation home, a parents home, etc... and for them it's probably worth spending the money to have 50A service installed there, but unless your destination is a hotel with very good charging capability you're not going to be charging overnight as a "common thing" at a destination.

 

[SageBrush]

I get it.... lots of people make trips to a vacation home, a parents home, etc... and for them it's probably worth spending the money to have 50A service installed there, but unless your destination is a hotel with very good charging capability you're not going to be charging overnight as a "common thing" at a destination.

30A L2 is enough

 

[McRat]

I do. The more you stop the longer it takes. Several stops can add significant duration to the trip.

If you have a 'philosophical objection' to DCFC, then you need to consider what different vehicle design advantages and disadvantages are.

You sound like an ICE or EREV would fit your needs better. Long trips in EVs require recharging which happens more often and takes longer than adding gasoline to your tank.

As of 2017, no pure EV can keep up with a new $13k ICE when it comes to average MPH for long trips. An EREV can, or in particular a Volt.

However, in another application an EV is superior to an ICE in refueling time. Let's say your neighbor needs to drive 50 miles to work and back each day (100mi/day). In a 'short range' Model 3, he can probably drive 85 mph to work, and 85 mph home. And never, ever, once stop for refueling for any reason. An ICE car for them would require at least once a week fueling, if not 2 or 3 times a week.

Now this neighbor could NOT use a short range (50-150mi) EV for that trip. The 85 mph, all season, all weather, drive will stop cars with under 150 miles of range. In other words, Smart, Honda, Nissan, BMW, MB, VW, Ford, Fiat offerings.

 

[SageBrush]

I do.

Chevy is on the line for you.
And remember to take your Foley with you!
And bag of cookies.

 

[gregincal]

That's exactly what I would like to be able to do. Stop once to eat and use the bathroom. Sound like with the LR Model 3 that will be feasible with some conservative driving.

You might find that one 30 minute stop and one 15-20 minute stop allows you to drive faster and take less time to get to your destination than a single 45 minute stop. Having shorter more frequent supercharger stops allows you to take advantage of faster charging times (since charging slows as your battery gets more full). If you want to have a longer stop for a meal you can, but you might find a second 10 minute stop allows you to drive full speed.

 

[KarenRei]

Did anyone ever bother to mention the temperature in question? Because it matters a lot. Also, what options are we talking about? Because wheel choice and AWD also have a meaningful impact on range.

 

[McRat]

Wow! Are you in the slow lane doing 55? LOL.

You'd be surprised. There is a bizarre state called California(?) where they force you drive <=55 mph in certain vehicles. If you don't, you can be fired from your line of work, not just your job. Driving 55 sucks, but it not poisonous, as thousands survive doing it every day. Not my cuppa but I can do it until hit stateline, then drive normal in most enlightened states.

 

[chronopc]

You might find that one 30 minute stop and one 15-20 minute stop allows you to drive faster and take less time to get to your destination than a single 45 minute stop. Having shorter more frequent supercharger stops allows you to take advantage of faster charging times (since charging slows as your battery gets more full). If you want to have a longer stop for a meal you can, but you might find a second 10 minute stop allows you to drive full speed.

Once I get the car I will try both technique and see which one gets me there faster. But seems like the LR is still the best way to go for me.