Rear ended today. 3-4 month wait - parts not available.

[Garlan Garner]

Just remember that there are a lot of worse things that can happen to you than getting your car damaged. Keep things in perspective and do something that makes you happy. It will eventually get fixed, and this will become a distant memory.

Thanks

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Here is my parts list (major front damage, less rear damage):

Labor Paint

1 FRONT BUMPER & GRILLE

2 S01 O/H bumper assy 3.5 3 * Repl Bumper cover 1084168S0D 1 365.00 Incl. 2.8 4 Add for Clear Coat 1.1

5 # Frt add w/parking sensors 1 0.6 6 # Frt add w/front impact sensors 1 0.6 M

7 Refn Tow brkt cover 0.2 8 Add for Clear Coat 0.1 9 Repl Bumper cover rivet 100652100A 12 3.60

10 # Repl RT Frt bumper bracket 1084182-00-E 1 1.10 11 # Repl LT Frt bumper bracket 1084181-00-E 1 1.10

12 # Repl RT Frt ctr bumper bracket 1084172-00-F 1 8.80 Incl. 13 # Repl LT Frt ctr bumper bracket 1084171-00-F 1 8.80 Incl.

14 Repl Absorber 110466900F 1 17.00 Incl. 15 * Repl Impact bar (ALU) 110466700D 1 180.00 0.4 16 # Repl Wire harness inner 1067961-00-E 1 70.00 1.0 M

17 * Repl Distance sensor 110864787B 1 230.00 m Incl. 18 * Repl Mount bracket 110376000B 1 5.00 Incl.

19 S01 Repl Bumper cover bolt 103168300B 5 2.75

Note: 6 of these are required. 20 S01 R&I Valance Incl.

Note: required for front cover replacment 21 S01 R&I Cross bar 0.5

Note: required for rad support replacement 22 # S01 R&I air guides 0.5

Note: these are glued to front cover and require removal and reinstall for refinishing

23 S01 Repl Prep unprimed bumper 1 0.7 24 # S01 Repl VAL UPA USS, RADIAL, ASSY,

Deep Blue

1127503-13-C 4 340.00

Note: VAL UPA USS, RADIAL, ASSY, Deep Blue

$85.00 Sold Qty 4

25 FRONT LAMPS 26 * Repl RT Headlamp assy 107737266E 1 970.00 0.4 27 Aim headlamps 0.5

28 * Repl LT Headlamp assy 107737166E 1 970.00 0.3 29 * S01 Repl RT Signal lamp 107739200C 1 200.00 0.2

30 * Repl LT Signal lamp 107739100C 1 200.00 Incl. 31 # S01 Rpr aim fog (signal lamps) 0.5 32 * Repl RT Repeater lamp 112510777A 1 130.00 Incl.

33 * Repl LT Repeater lamp 112510677A 1 130.00 Incl. 34 RADIATOR SUPPORT

4/22/2019 2:58:47 PM 314419 Page 2

35 Repl Radiator support 111024000B 1 550.00 2.1 36 Repl RT Side support 108417000B 1 5.50 1.1 37 Repl LT Side support 108416900B 1 5.50 1.1

38 HOOD 39 Repl Hood (ALU) 1081390E0B 1 450.00 1.2 2.8

40 Add for Clear Coat 1.1 41 Add for Underside(Complete) 1.4 42 * Repl Latch 103301100E 1 55.00 Incl.

43 * Repl RT Release cable 109878900C 1 105.00 Incl. 44 * Repl LT Release cable 109879000C 1 85.00 Incl.

45 Repl Striker 106903200B 1 39.00 Incl. 46 Repl Weatherstrip 109049200B 1 35.00 Incl. 47 * Repl Emblem 109848900C 1 28.00 0.1 48 * Repl Storage compart 108167488D 1 165.00 Incl.

49 # Repl RT Frt body clip 1106961-00-C 4 4.40

50 # Repl LT Frt body clip 1106961-00-C 4 4.40 51 * R&I Mat Incl. 52 # R&I Front body plate Incl. 53 S01 Repl Front seal 112734500A 1 33.00 0.2

54 S01 Repl Striker bolt 100883301A 2 2.20

Note: 2 of these are required. 55 S01 Repl Lower reinf 110981800B 1 44.00 0.2 56 * S01 Repl Front panel 109585800D 1 33.00 0.2 57 S01 Repl RT Side support 111600300C 1 1.10

58 S01 Repl LT Side support 111600200C 1 1.10 59 S01 Repl RT Hinge 1098793T4C 1 49.00 0.3 0.5

60 S01 Repl LT Hinge 1098792T4C 1 49.00 0.3 0.5 61 S01 Overlap Minor Panel -0.2

62 # S01 Rpr touch up bolts 0.5 63 FENDER 64 Repl RT Fender (ALU) 1081400E0C 1 250.00 3.1 1.8

65 Overlap Major Adj. Panel -0.4 66 Add for Clear Coat 0.3

67 Add for Edging 0.5 68 Add for Clear Coat 0.1

69 Repl LT Fender (ALU) 1081401E0C 1 250.00 3.1 1.8 70 Overlap Major Adj. Panel -0.4 71 Add for Clear Coat 0.3

72 Add for Edging 0.5 73 Add for Clear Coat 0.1

74 R&I RT Fender liner Incl. 75 R&I LT Fender liner Incl. 76 * S01 Repl LT Inner support 1086017S0A 1 17.00 0.2 0.2

77 S01 Add for Clear Coat 0.1 78 * S01 Repl RT Inner support 1086016S0A 1 17.00 0.2 0.2

79 S01 Add for Clear Coat 0.1 80 ELECTRICAL 81 * Repl Control module home link 1114984-00-B 1 115.00 Incl.

82 * S01 Repl Bracket home link 109835500B 1 18.00 Incl. 83 # S01 Repl RADAR, SEVEN PIN

PERPENDICULAR

1108647-00-C 1 255.00

Note: RADAR, SEVEN PIN PERPENDICULAR 01108647-00-C $255.00

84 # S01 Repl Bracket 1108648-00-D 1 3.00 Incl. 85 # S01 Repl FEM RADAR BRKT 1103760-00-B 1 5.50

Note: FEM RADAR BRKT 01103760-00-B $5.50 86 * R&I High note horn m Incl.

87 * S01 Repl Low note horn 110965900A 1 54.00 m Incl. 88 # Rpr Disconnect & Connect 12V

Electrical

0.6 M

89 WINDSHIELD 90 Repl Windshield TESLA 1466270-60-b 1 530.00 4.0 G 91 # Glass Urethane Kit 1 20.00

92 COWL

93 S01 Repl RT Side cover 111207200A 1 1.10 0.2 94 * S01 Repl Cowl grille 108167601D 1 33.00 0.6 95 S01 Repl LT Side cover 111207100A 1 1.10 0.2 96 INSTRUMENT PANEL

97 * S01 R&I RT Side cover 0.1

Note: required for head liner R&I

98 * S01 R&I LT Side cover 0.1

Note: required for head liner R&I

99 ROOF 100 R&I R&I headliner 3.0 101 PILLARS, ROCKER & FLOOR

102 * Rpr RT Cowl/Dash hinge pillar s 0.5 1.3

Note: MODIFIED REFINISH W/FULL CLEAR COAT

103 Overlap Major Adj. Panel -0.4 104 Add for Clear Coat 0.2

105 S01 R&I LT W/S pillar trim Incl.

Note: required for head liner R&I 106 S01 R&I RT W/S pillar trim Incl.

Note: required for head liner R&I 107 # S01 Repl TERMEX TETHER, SHORT 1131795-00-C 2 0.02

Note: TERMEX TETHER, SHORT Use on A pillar

1131795-00-C Contact Tesla for pricing Required replacement

108 S01 R&I LT Front sill plate Incl.

Note: required for head liner R&I 109 S01 R&I RT Front sill plate Incl.

Note: required for head liner R&I 110 S01 R&I LT Cowl trim Incl.

Note: required for head liner R&I 111 S01 R&I RT Cowl trim Incl.

Note: required for head liner R&I 112 FRONT DOOR 113 * Rpr RT Door shell (ALU) 0.5 1.6

Note: MODIFIED REFINISH W/FULL CLEAR COAT 114 Overlap Major Adj. Panel -0.4

115 Add for Clear Coat 0.2 116 * Rpr LT Door shell (ALU) 0.5 1.6

Note: MODIFIED REFINISH W/FULL CLEAR COAT

117 Overlap Major Adj. Panel -0.4 118 * Add for Clear Coat 0.2

119 R&I RT Belt molding 0.2 120 R&I LT Belt molding 0.2 121 R&I RT R&I mirror 0.3

122 R&I LT R&I mirror 0.3 123 * R&I RT Handle, outside 0.7

124 # R&I RT Frt access hole cover 0.5 125 * R&I LT Handle, outside 0.7 126 # R&I LT Frt access hole cover 0.5

127 * R&I RT R&I trim panel Incl. 128 * R&I LT R&I trim panel Incl.

129 S01 R&I RT Door glass TESLA 0.5

Note: required for door handle removal and reinstall 130 S01 R&I LT Door glass TESLA 0.5

Note: required for door handle removal and reinstall 131 S01 Repl RT Door trim panel clip 113514700A 25 220.00

Note: sold in qty of 25. Part is not reusable, must replace. 9 of these are required.per side 132 S01 R&I LT Window regulator 0.4

Note: required for door handle removal and reinstall

133 S01 R&I RT Window regulator 0.4

Note: required for door handle removal and reinstall 134 QUARTER PANEL 135 S01 R&I RT Upper trim Incl.

Note: required for headliner R&I

136 S01 R&I LT Upper trim Incl.

Note: required for headliner R&I

137 # S01 Repl TETHER CLIP, 50204, 30619-168 1090272-00-B 2 4.40

Note: TETHER CLIP, 50204, 30619-168 Use on side rail trim 1090272-00-B $2.20 Required replacement 138 REAR BODY & FLOOR 139 # S01 R&I sill plate 0.1

Note: required for tail lamp removal and reinstall 140 S01 R&I LT Side trim 0.1

Note: required for tail lamp removal and reinstall 141 S01 R&I RT Side trim 0.1

Note: required for tail lamp removal and reinstall

142 S01 R&I Floor cover 0.2

Note: required for tail lamp removal and reinstall

143 REAR LAMPS 144 * R&I RT Tail lamp assy 0.5 145 * R&I LT Tail lamp assy 0.5

146 REAR BUMPER 147 * Rpr Bumper cover 4.0 3.0

148 Add for Clear Coat 1.2 149 # TO MATCH O/H ON PREWRITTEN 1 -0.3 150 O/H bumper assy 2.5 151 * Repl Lower cover 110303500C 1 95.00 Incl. 0.0

152 * Repl Add for park sensor 1 m 0.6

153 S01 Repl Impact bar (ALU) 109531400C 1 180.00 0.6 154 # Subl Hazardous Waste Removal 1 4.00 X 155 # Subl Towing 1 850.00 X 156 # S01 Rpr Paint Defect Rectification 1.0

157 # S01 Rpr TESLA TOOLBOX SET UP WITH

PRE SCAN

1.3 M

158 # S01 Rpr TESLA TOOLBOX SET UP WITH

THERMAL SCAN

1.3 M

159 # S01 Rpr TESLA TOOLBOX SET UP WITH

FRONT SENSOR TEST

1.3 M

160 # S01 Rpr TESLA TOOLBOX REAR SENSOR

TEST

0.3 M

161 # S01 Rpr TESLA TOOLBOX LOUVER

SHUTTER TEST

0.3 M

162 # S01 Rpr TESLA TOOLBOX SET UP WITH

FIRMWARE REDEPLOY

1.3 M

163 # S01 Rpr TESLA TOOLBOX LEFT AND

RIGHT FRONT WINDOW PROGRAMING

0.6 M

164 # S01 Rpr TESLA TOOLBOX HOMELINK

TEST

0.3 M

165 # S01 Rpr TESLA TOOLBOX SET UP WITH

DRIVE ALIGNMENT

2.

CONFIGURATION Note: THIS OPERATION REQUIRES TESLA TOOLBOX CONNECTED WITH 2 TECHNICIANS ON MINUMUM TEST DRIVE OF 30 MINUTES TO 100 MILES TO RE CLAIBRATE CAMERA IN WINDSHIELD AFTER REINSTALL OF NEW WINDSHIELD AND REPEATERLAMPS. 166 # S01 Rpr TESLA TOOLBOX SET UP WITH

DTC READ AND CLEAR

1.3 M

167 # S01 Rpr TESLA TOOLBOX SET UP WITH

POST SCAN

1.3 M

168 # S01 Corrosion Protection 1 15.00 0.3 169 # S01 Cover Car 1 8.00 X 0.2

170 # S01 Flex Additive 1 8.00


Now with all of that, for some reason, my estimate comes in slightly lower than Garlan's? I don't get it?

We'd have to see the full breakdown of labor costs in a legible format to start to compare. Keep in mind his is $10k worth of labor, $5k worth of parts.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I'm kind of wondering about this shop yours is at? My shop just needed my remote access password when they first got it to avoid me starting it up while they are working on it. I set it with a temp password for now. I'll change it back once I get it back. I've never had to call Tesla or fight any of that with the Service Centers. I only have been following up with Tesla Body Shop support on ETAs of parts promised by certain dates. Only reason for my increased activity was a lack of response from the changeover of person on my ticket.

Add to it the rather extreme costs on the estimate for just rear end damage. I should show you pics from my damage that came in at around the same cost. You'd be shocked.

Anything you can do to help me.....I would appreciate it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It is an adjuster estimate.

Based on above from @VT_EE, they could do a teardown estimate (and it might be advisable so that they get ALL the parts on order), at the shop, and then put it all back together and you can drive it off.

I'm not sure of all the logistics here, but in the end the first thing is to render the car drivable again. Then it's a lot easier to decide how to proceed and with what timing. That's the first priority as far as I can tell. Just my opinion, and what I would do.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Add to it the rather extreme costs on the estimate for just rear end damage.

Note that this is the adjuster estimate, not the shop estimate.

As far as the cost differences, my thought is that it's possible that it takes a lot longer to pull apart and reconstruct a trunk than it takes to unbolt and reassemble parts of the front. It all depends on how the car is put together and what was damaged.

I would guess that most of that 90 hours of labor in his case is going to be spent dismantling and reassembling the trunk area.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Based on above from @VT_EE, they could do a teardown estimate (and it might be advisable so that they get ALL the parts on order), at the shop, and then put it all back together and you can drive it off.

I'm not sure of all the logistics here, but in the end the first thing is to render the car drivable again. Then it's a lot easier to decide how to proceed and with what timing. That's the first priority as far as I can tell. Just my opinion, and what I would do.

My seat belts are locked in place. All I know is that the driver belt won't move in our out.

 

[hpartsch]

If you’re an expert in body work, fantastic. But I genuinely don’t know an Asy-Rail Rr Upr from an M3-Rail Rear Lower

There comes a time where I have to trust the professional, and body work is one of them. I wouldn’t know what I’m looking at ....

Don't need to be an expert. The body shop tells you they won't start work on the car until they have xyz parts. Tesla says they sent xyz to the body shop. Part xy is received but z is not received. Tesla's great system shows it as shipped but doesn't have tracking info. Only with multiple emails, on my end, did the part get re-shipped, overnight. The repair was then able to start. Yes, the body shop would have eventually looked into this; however, it would have likely been delayed the total repair by at least a few weeks, as everything on their end and Teslas end looked good. It took a few very stern emails and demands to get the part and for them to acknowledge the issues.

 

[GHammer]

My rear-ended S I posted upthread, Rear ended today. 3-4 month wait - parts not available. , estimate came in at $6500. No ETA on parts yet.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

My seat belts are locked in place. All I know is that the driver belt won't move in our out.

Well, I'm not an expert on this, but that does suggest the pre-tensioner went off (you probably would have smelled something as it uses a small explosive charge, I think), and that is bad as far as driving it off the lot...however, I would imagine it would be possible to replace ONLY that (if you could get the parts!) and then drive it off. But that's a much bigger ask and a lot more complicated than what I was suggesting earlier.

The chances of driving your car off and waiting for parts has gone down, with that information, sadly.

If anyone here knows about other options for pre-tensioners, they could speak up, but in general, for safety, you want that to be fully operational and replaced before you drive the vehicle.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Well, I'm not an expert on this, but that does suggest the pre-tensioner went off (you probably would have smelled something as it uses a small explosive charge, I think), and that is bad as far as driving it off the lot...however, I would imagine it would be possible to replace ONLY that (if you could get the parts!) and then drive it off. But that's a much bigger ask and a lot more complicated than what I was suggesting earlier.

The chances of driving your car off and waiting for parts has gone down, with that information, sadly.

If anyone here knows about other options for pre-tensioners, they could speak up, but in general, for safety, you want that to be fully operational and replaced before you drive the vehicle.

Yes...Yes I did!!!

I didn't know where that smell was coming from.

It smelled like electronics were burning.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yes...Yes I did!!!

I didn't know where that smell was coming from. It smelled like electronics were burning.

Yeah, not surprising. This is the reason all the seat belt parts are in your list.

Anyway, I am sure replacing it is completely trivial, and if you could get access to the parts (we know how that goes!), the body shop could do it.

But as I said, that's logistically very difficult and a big ask for a body shop to do one part of the repair and then release the car while waiting for more parts, and totally non-standard...etc. Wouldn't hurt to ask though!

Sorry man.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Another thought...it's not 100% out of the question that you could get this car totaled - and it might not be that bad for you. I showed a picture of the damage to my brother who's an experienced GEICO adjuster and he said it is possible it is totaled (not guaranteed though).

Factors:
1) This is an adjuster estimate and will likely go up. I would not be surprised if it goes over $20k; it's a labor intensive repair due to the (apparent) trunk intrusion. (If there's actually minimal intrusion the costs could go down a lot I suppose...)

2) The salvage value of this vehicle is likely quite high because the nature of the damage is quite minimal - replace the seat belt pretensioner and it looks like it is probably completely driveable. That makes it worth a lot of money.

3) If you make it clear you will be claiming diminished value after repair (and you should make your intent clear, though the claim should actually be made after the repair is complete), that is a cost the insurance will have to account for.

4) The storage fees will likely be extremely high.

5) The rental fees are likely to be quite high.

The fair market value (FMV) of the vehicle...I don't know...that will depend...it can be looked up but it will still be pretty high (though you may not be made whole - but remember the tax credit you (hopefully) got isn't directly counted against you in the total payout so that helps - and you get to claim another one (if you can get them to move quickly you might be able to get $3750...I'm sure Tesla would love to deliver a P3D+)).

Anyway, if ( FMV - Salvage Value < All other costs listed above ), then the insurance company potentially has to think about it. They have to pay one or the other, and they'll pay whichever one is less, in a perfect world!

That salvage value being high therefore could help you (or hurt you, depending on what you want). I wouldn't think it is LIKELY, but it is possible taking into account these factors. I have no idea; I'm not saying one way or another what is going to happen.

 

[Superspectral]

Unrelated to the OP - just my own story.

Body shop called and said they received front bumper cover and associated parts. Took about 3 weeks. So, by the end of next week my creased bumper should be fixed.

I am more upset that I'm driving with a cracked front window and it has been 5 weeks and going to get a new front window.

 

[cbrigante2]

Note that this is the adjuster estimate, not the shop estimate.

As far as the cost differences, my thought is that it's possible that it takes a lot longer to pull apart and reconstruct a trunk than it takes to unbolt and reassemble parts of the front. It all depends on how the car is put together and what was damaged.

I would guess that most of that 90 hours of labor in his case is going to be spent dismantling and reassembling the trunk area.

Here is the labor/parts cost breakdown:

 

[cbrigante2]

Unrelated to the OP - just my own story.

Body shop called and said they received front bumper cover and associated parts. Took about 3 weeks. So, by the end of next week my creased bumper should be fixed.

I am more upset that I'm driving with a cracked front window and it has been 5 weeks and going to get a new front window.

The windshield replacement took a while for my parts list, but it came faster than the retainer clips for the airbags.

 

[MXWing]

Possibly they’re thinking about declaring the vehicle a full loss? That, combined with a diminished value claim, wouldn’t be the end of the world. You might get to choose a brand new vehicle, claim another tax incentive, and move on. If it comes to that, I recommend hiring a private appraiser to help valuate the vehicle as it should be.

Don’t give up hope!! This’ll all turn out OK in the end.

Another thought...it's not 100% out of the question that you could get this car totaled - and it might not be that bad for you. I showed a picture of the damage to my brother who's an experienced GEICO adjuster and he said it is possible it is totaled (not guaranteed though).

Factors:
1) This is an adjuster estimate and will likely go up. I would not be surprised if it goes over $20k; it's a labor intensive repair due to the (apparent) trunk intrusion. (If there's actually minimal intrusion the costs could go down a lot I suppose...)

2) The salvage value of this vehicle is likely quite high because the nature of the damage is quite minimal - replace the seat belt pretensioner and it looks like it is probably completely driveable. That makes it worth a lot of money.

3) If you make it clear you will be claiming diminished value after repair (and you should make your intent clear, though the claim should actually be made after the repair is complete), that is a cost the insurance will have to account for.

4) The storage fees will likely be extremely high.

5) The rental fees are likely to be quite high.

The fair market value (FMV) of the vehicle...I don't know...that will depend...it can be looked up but it will still be pretty high (though you may not be made whole - but remember the tax credit you (hopefully) got isn't directly counted against you in the total payout so that helps - and you get to claim another one (if you can get them to move quickly you might be able to get $3750...I'm sure Tesla would love to deliver a P3D+)).

Anyway, if ( FMV - Salvage Value < All other costs listed above ), then the insurance company potentially has to think about it. They have to pay one or the other, and they'll pay whichever one is less, in a perfect world!

That salvage value being high therefore could help you (or hurt you, depending on what you want). I wouldn't think it is LIKELY, but it is possible taking into account these factors. I have no idea; I'm not saying one way or another what is going to happen.

In a total he’d lose

FUSC
Lifetime premium LTE (could be a thing)
Early access FSD (could be a thing)

 

[cbrigante2]

Another thought...it's not 100% out of the question that you could get this car totaled - and it might not be that bad for you. I showed a picture of the damage to my brother who's an experienced GEICO adjuster and he said it is possible it is totaled (not guaranteed though).

Factors:
1) This is an adjuster estimate and will likely go up. I would not be surprised if it goes over $20k; it's a labor intensive repair due to the (apparent) trunk intrusion. (If there's actually minimal intrusion the costs could go down a lot I suppose...)

2) The salvage value of this vehicle is likely quite high because the nature of the damage is quite minimal - replace the seat belt pretensioner and it looks like it is probably completely driveable. That makes it worth a lot of money.

3) If you make it clear you will be claiming diminished value after repair (and you should make your intent clear, though the claim should actually be made after the repair is complete), that is a cost the insurance will have to account for.

4) The storage fees will likely be extremely high.

5) The rental fees are likely to be quite high.

The fair market value (FMV) of the vehicle...I don't know...that will depend...it can be looked up but it will still be pretty high (though you may not be made whole - but remember the tax credit you (hopefully) got isn't directly counted against you in the total payout so that helps - and you get to claim another one (if you can get them to move quickly you might be able to get $3750...I'm sure Tesla would love to deliver a P3D+)).

Anyway, if ( FMV - Salvage Value < All other costs listed above ), then the insurance company potentially has to think about it. They have to pay one or the other, and they'll pay whichever one is less, in a perfect world!

That salvage value being high therefore could help you (or hurt you, depending on what you want). I wouldn't think it is LIKELY, but it is possible taking into account these factors. I have no idea; I'm not saying one way or another what is going to happen.

I would guess a "totaling" of the Model 3 would be based on damage to the battery pack itself or to the protective structure surrounding it. I got lucky on mine that neither were damaged (it was a relatively low speed impact, but it was with the hitch side of a high riding pickup truck). A side note. My adjuster had it at around $13k total. The repair shop bumped it up a couple grand on some replacement parts needed on the rear bumper.

 

[cbrigante2]

Anything you can do to help me.....I would appreciate it.

Garlan, again I would only suggest an email to Body Shop Support, polite in tone, to at least get included in the loop on ETAs of parts to the repair shop. It will save you thinking nothing is happening at least. I think the general consensus in here lately is around 2 months seems to be average. Let your insurance fight the guilty's insurance over the details. That's their job.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

In a total he’d lose

FUSC
Lifetime premium LTE (could be a thing)
Early access FSD (could be a thing)

Yep. All that plays into FMV except maybe FUSC.

 

[dmurphy]

Yep. All that plays into FMV except maybe FUSC.

... and even that, I think you might be able to showcase the $5,000 PUP refund as an approximate value for FUSC.