Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

[FalconFour]

Well, preliminary analysis was quick: it's the same bloody thing (identical in wiring to my Gen3 orange/encased/Yazaki? charge port). Just in yet another vastly different package that bears precisely zero similarities to my charge port in appearances.

Tried to make the most info visible there for the camera angle.

So, the pins all seem to be the same, landing in the same places. Again: no "continuity detect" pin. So that's definitely a Gen4 thing.

In fact,

Thermistors are 10k as well (12.29k because it's a tad chilly in here). But as you can see from the first photo, they're much easier to, theoretically, swap out with a 100k(+100k ground bias) arrangement on each to make it look identical to Gen4. That style of thermistor seems to be pretty industry standard. See for example: NTCALUG01A104GA Vishay Beyschlag/Draloric/BC Components | Sensors, Transducers | DigiKey (one of many results for "ring 100k ntc" - I haven't even looked at the datasheet, lol).

Welp, so the new port is just the old port in way, way different clothing. Low chance of it, but I'd still be down to plug it into my car and see if it tosses up the same faults as before. Tesla Service must not replace many ECUs if they think the Gen4 should've "just worked" at this rate! Electrically, the only thing left that it could sense as a "gen3/gen4" trigger is, maybe, the charge port latch motor... big doubt. Let's find out (... later! haha)!

 

[FalconFour]

Ooh, new page! For anyone just joining us, you can find great success (details, etc) on page 9 of this thread:

Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

Welp, can confirm the old port doesn't have a resistor on Prox. Lame. Well, good news is, the Prox signal was split in 2 pins (copied/shorted to both) probably for this very reason (and Gen3 has 2.7k between the Prox pin and Gnd). So I just have to add the resistor that changed places, now we...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[wlee]

I really appreciate FalconFour's effort, looking for a simple solution to convert GEN4 EU ECU to GEN3 old car.

Meanwhile, I found this forum contains a lot related information about the charging system of model 3,

Tesla Combined Charging System (CCS) - openinverter forum

 

[FalconFour]

I really appreciate FalconFour's effort, looking for a simple solution to convert GEN4 EU ECU to GEN3 old car.

Meanwhile, I found this forum contains a lot related information about the charging system of model 3,

Tesla Combined Charging System (CCS) - openinverter forum

I saw that thread, but it kinda veers off into off-topic more than on topic. Still fun info for those unfamiliar with it, or building their own conversion

I'd think EU Gen3 vs Gen4 would be similar if not identical issues to what we've faced here. Anyone looking for a solution there ought to dig up similar info (service manual: harness info, wiring diagrams) and see how it matches up. Only thing I'd expect to be any different would be the proximity pins, but even then, maybe those are the same!

May just suggest starting with what I've posted here so far, try acquiring a Gen4 EU ECU and build the adapter the same way, pop it into a Gen3 car, reflash/update, and see if it complains about anything!

 

[jjrandorin]

(Moderator note)

I stickied this thread so that @FalconFour doesnt have to bump it to keep it on top of page in a subforum that tends to move fast.

 

[West Coast 3]

I saw that thread, but it kinda veers off into off-topic more than on topic. Still fun info for those unfamiliar with it, or building their own conversion

I'd think EU Gen3 vs Gen4 would be similar if not identical issues to what we've faced here. Anyone looking for a solution there ought to dig up similar info (service manual: harness info, wiring diagrams) and see how it matches up. Only thing I'd expect to be any different would be the proximity pins, but even then, maybe those are the same!

May just suggest starting with what I've posted here so far, try acquiring a Gen4 EU ECU and build the adapter the same way, pop it into a Gen3 car, reflash/update, and see if it complains about anything!

Thank you FalconFour! I am the lucky guy that grabbed the 4th and last harness kit from you. I was able to order the GEN4 ECU directly from Tesla and it should arrive in a week or so; there was no order restriction for the GEN4 ECU using my 2019 M3 VIN.

 

[FalconFour]

(Moderator note)

I stickied this thread so that @FalconFour doesnt have to bump it to keep it on top of page in a subforum that tends to move fast.

Haha, not what I meant by bumping Just every time there's a new page in this thread, there tends to be information totally lost in previous pages. So, to give new passers-by some good grounding, pointing out where most of the good stuff lives.

I also realized I can edit the first post all the time, which is super useful and I used that last night as well.

(But wow -- I actually have a sticky thread, one of those very rare internet-famous moments. Woo! Oh, it'll be interesting to see if the media ever picks this up... haha)

 

[jjrandorin]

I also realized I can edit the first post all the time, which is super useful and I used that last night as well.

Thats interesting actually.... the only way I know to make a post editable is to make it a wiki, but I havent used that function so I am unfamiliar with it (and not sure if I even have the digital rights to make a wiki thread). In any case, lets not look a gift horse in the mouth (lol) so if you can edit the first post still, have at it

 

[West Coast 3]

Because it (the Gen4 ECU) was sold (to a person with that same issue - replacing a "reduced" Gen4 with the real Gen4). Notice 1 was sold... I have my eBay account set up to let me "restock" things by default, which didn't really apply here (I make stickers, too Bumper Sticker/Magnet "I'm probably not driving" ) - so I had to end it manually after it sold.

As far as the bundle of ominous wires without context, yep, one is still left.

Thank you FalconFour! I am the lucky guy that grabbed the 4th and last harness kit from you. I was able to order the GEN4 ECU directly from Tesla and it should arrive in a week or so; there was no order restriction for the GEN4 ECU using my 2019 M3 VIN.

 

[FalconFour]

I'll probably make more, but stripping/crimping the wires is kindova PITA. I hope to find a service that'll make custom crimped wires and put it to use.

I did another full-power CCS test today and oddly enough, found it throttling stable around 140kW with my early-rev EVHub adapter (limited by car, not station). So, the throttling starts earlier than 170f (that is, the car throttles as it climbs 140...150...160f) -- which in my opinion is a success, as the current 10k setup puts it a little further into the margin of safety. Still need to test it with 250kW v3 Superchargers (with Tesla's plug, and liquid cooling). That'll be my next test. But it's still a good first revision!

 

[wlee]

I'll probably make more, but stripping/crimping the wires is kindova PITA. I hope to find a service that'll make custom crimped wires and put it to use.

I did another full-power CCS test today and oddly enough, found it throttling stable around 140kW with my early-rev EVHub adapter (limited by car, not station). So, the throttling starts earlier than 170f (that is, the car throttles as it climbs 140...150...160f) -- which in my opinion is a success, as the current 10k setup puts it a little further into the margin of safety. Still need to test it with 250kW v3 Superchargers (with Tesla's plug, and liquid cooling). That'll be my next test. But it's still a good first revision!

I will follow your design to build a converter & replace my CP ECU. Now the last problem is how to buy a CCS Adapter.

Now Korea Tesla declined to sell us the adapter to overseas owner. EVHub design is way too expensive. I found another CCS adapter on eBay => Tesla Supercharger Adapter USA to EU, Model S, Model X, Model 3 Type2 REV2 | eBay but its price is even higher 750 USD.

I wonder if it is possible we can modify any existing Tesla adapter into "CCS to Tesla" (if so, what is its pin-to-pin wiring? from CCS -> Tesla connector), or find another company to build this kind of adapter. I believe if we rely on Tesla and wait for is genuine CCS adapter (as sold in Korea) might be not realistic because for Tesla their priority is to build new cars and make more revenue, not such kind of conversion kit.

 

[israndy]

I wonder how the EVHub guys in Ukraine are making out. Must be quite a scary time.

That link on eBay is for an EU adapter, not for US CCS. I might get one when I export my car to the UK, but there will be more problems than finding power, AT&T doesn't have cell service there, so no maps and nav if I didn't configure the drive before I left WiFi connectivity or set up my cell phone as a hot spot

 

[theeskimo]

I'll probably make more, but stripping/crimping the wires is kindova PITA. I hope to find a service that'll make custom crimped wires and put it to use.

I did another full-power CCS test today and oddly enough, found it throttling stable around 140kW with my early-rev EVHub adapter (limited by car, not station). So, the throttling starts earlier than 170f (that is, the car throttles as it climbs 140...150...160f) -- which in my opinion is a success, as the current 10k setup puts it a little further into the margin of safety. Still need to test it with 250kW v3 Superchargers (with Tesla's plug, and liquid cooling). That'll be my next test. But it's still a good first revision!

I would also be curious to know if your setup works with the CHAdeMO adapter as well?

 

[FalconFour]

I wonder if it is possible we can modify any existing Tesla adapter into "CCS to Tesla" (if so, what is its pin-to-pin wiring? from CCS -> Tesla connector), or find another company to build this kind of adapter.

The biggest challenge is going to be building anything that can withstand the ludicrous amount of current Tesla can gorb down. 600 amps or so, for minutes at a time... that's more than 10x the number of raw amps you see in a 40A charging cable. Typical adapters and plugs are made for that. To make an adapter that can withstand 600 amps, you really need to build the entire adapter from scratch. (FWIW, the CHAdeMO adapter is near worthless by comparison, being limited to "only" 125 amps!).

Because there's no software/firmware in the adapter, there's no way to make an adapter "tell" the station or the car to go slower. They'll try gorbing down those amps, and if the adapter can't keep up, well... it becomes a fuse. (or more likely, it just melts and possibly causes some severe damage to station/car).

Another big challenge is that... believe it or not... the positive/negative polarity needs to be SWAPPED in the adapter (cross over one another) in order to make it to the Tesla side. Yeah. The Tesla and EVHub adapter both have the CCS socket lugs swapped relative to the Tesla plug. No small feat.

Aside from that, for Type 1 CCS to Tesla plug, the pilot/prox/ground wires are the only other remaining ones, and those map to the corresponding (same function - ought to look it up to verify position) pins on the Tesla plug. Just each pin goes straight through. Everything is different in the Type 2 world though - from "a bit different" to "a lot different".

I would also be curious to know if your setup works with the CHAdeMO adapter as well?

Yup, no problem with my CHAdeMO adapter - it's through-and-through just giving the charge port the brains of the newer-built cars. As they work with the CHAdeMO adapter, as does mine. Though I'll probably sell it now, honestly... (it's a bit hard letting go, haha)

 

[FalconFour]

Just a quick update... I just ordered another set of parts to build (hopefully... rough calculations) 15 more sets.

Expect them to arrive next week, so there'll be a restock next weekend. Hopefully I can keep moving on cutting, crimping, soldering on them! Not a big money maker or anything, but enough to keep motivated. haha.

Also planning on testing v3 250kW Supercharging again as soon as I can get my battery down to 15%-ish. Hopefully tomorrow.

 

[wlee]

Just a quick update... I just ordered another set of parts to build (hopefully... rough calculations) 15 more sets.

Expect them to arrive next week, so there'll be a restock next weekend. Hopefully I can keep moving on cutting, crimping, soldering on them! Not a big money maker or anything, but enough to keep motivated. haha.

Also planning on testing v3 250kW Supercharging again as soon as I can get my battery down to 15%-ish. Hopefully tomorrow.

I assume I will have an EU ECU later and my software update has arrived. I will cut the main battery and 12v battery power and swap to the new EU ECU. Then power on, update the software, everything should be ok.

However, may I ask you if the swapped ECU still has problems, and I decide to swap back to the original ECU, => I still have to wait for another software update to make the original ECU work?

I know if I can manually enter service mode then I can force to update the software immediately, but I don't know how to enter service mode. Also, the closest service center is about 150 km away from my home, seems it does not make sense to go there just for software updates. Can you suggest any alternative possible solution for this case? Thank you.

 

[FalconFour]

I assume I will have an EU ECU later and my software update has arrived. I will cut the main battery and 12v battery power and swap to the new EU ECU. Then power on, update the software, everything should be ok.

However, may I ask you if the swapped ECU still has problems, and I decide to swap back to the original ECU, => I still have to wait for another software update to make the original ECU work?

I know if I can manually enter service mode then I can force to update the software immediately, but I don't know how to enter service mode. Also, the closest service center is about 150 km away from my home, seems it does not make sense to go there just for software updates. Can you suggest any alternative possible solution for this case? Thank you.

I don't know anything about EU ECU/charge port (if you'd be as verbose as possible about your findings and what the ECU looks/acts/smells/tastes like, we may all benefit )... But yeah, you do need to get a reflash any time you swap ECUs. That can be tricky.

I'll say that Tesla service has been fairly conducive to anything they can do to help within reason. You might be able to just submit a service request (only way to talk to them) and ask to get a firmware reflash pushed. Then, the orange "clock" re-appears and you get the ability to reinstall. That can be pushed remotely, very easily - they basically just have to pull up your car on their computer and click the button.

Just make sure to do the sequence correctly:

1. Get the replacement ECU ready but not plugged in
2. Request reflash and wait for the orange clock icon (in V11, it moved to the controls panel, not main display)
3. Power down the car and plug in the ECU
4. Power the car back up and install the update/reflash.

If the replacement ECU is installed before the update's ready, the car will run on 12v and kill your 12v battery in probably around an hour or less (kill = needing recharge, not kill=needing replacement)

 

[FalconFour]

Fun time: I ran a 250kW test charge today

This was with ~30mins of preheating and watching the battery temperature climb, oh god, oh so slowly, from 77f (in garage) up to about 120f, before starting. Indeed, the liquid cooled cable in the V3 Supercharger does make a difference in port temp vs. amps delivered. The port temperature climbed up to (reported) 160f-ish, but I couldn't tell if it was throttling by port temperature or battery (remember, I'm a proud owner of an 81,000-mile 2018 Model 3!). Either way, seemed to be perfectly normal.

(v3 Supercharger after a couple minutes)

So, port still works normally for V3 Supercharging at plaid (in the Spaceballs, not Tesla sense) speed. Worth reiterating: no part of the port was actually modified, but the temperature sensors read higher-than-reality until a crossover point of a bit over 170f. That's excessive safety, I figure. Just need to make sure the car is still operating normally even though it always thinks the port is ... fairly warm.

I finished off the day by strolling over to ChargePoint HQ and trying out one of their shiny new 200kW CCS stations -- that I only learned about halfway through my top-off charge at the slower stations, so I dipped up to 90kW after switching, but throttled by being at 70% SOC.

 

[jiml]

I wonder how the EVHub guys in Ukraine are making out. Must be quite a scary time.

That link on eBay is for an EU adapter, not for US CCS. I might get one when I export my car to the UK, but there will be more problems than finding power, AT&T doesn't have cell service there, so no maps and nav if I didn't configure the drive before I left WiFi connectivity or set up my cell phone as a hot spot

I have the CCS adapter from EVHub. I emailed him with my support the other day due to the war. This was his reply.

Thank you for your support!
We are fighting for our land.
Will not give up.

 

[minnesnowta]

Thank you for this great thread, FalconFour! My case is the more simple one where I need to swap my ECU (1537264-80-B) with the CCS-enabled one (1537264-00-B). I ordered the part from my local SC today and should have it next week. In preparation, I watched a video on how to access the 12v battery in the Y and part of the video showed the presenter disconnecting the First Responder loop:

. Would doing that have the same effect as unplugging the connector under the rear seats?