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anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
I certainly don't believe everything Eds wrote. Specifically, his claims about subpar quality in initial shipments of very low quantity seemed ridiculous.
However, the gist of what he stated, that there were still supplier issues, was largely corroborated by the shareholders conference call and media reports with somewhat similar stories. Elon himself stated that the 2nd row seats were very tricky to correctly produce. Where there's smoke, there's f*re.
My sense from all the info and rumors combined is that Model X has been an "everything + kitchen sink" project where the company could afford to try out unconventional paths. I'm therefore not surprised if there are ongoing production issues. Well, there's 1 month to go. We will find out soon enough.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
You just need to get a little more famous for the next reveal, and bring a helicopter. Or better yet become a SpaceX pilot :smile:
Streisand goes coastal over Web photo effort - SFGate
Pretty interesting, had no idea this was the Model X #1 reservation holder.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
If I had to lose out on Sig #1, I'm glad it was to them. Class act. They did a great service for California.
Ahh, that makes sense. I'm not a Californian, and I did google her name, but not his. Plus, his name is fairly common-- there's a former US diplomat with the same name and just slightly older, for instance.
Did you check the last name? Who do you think flew the helicopter?
Did I miss something? I don't see where that Mercury News article stated who had Sig X #1.
Good analogy. Just like TMC, many Mac sites (AppleInsider perhaps even more so than Mac Rumors) have a very high percentage of people who identify very strongly with Apple and with certain leadership characters there. Previously Steve Jobs, now perhaps Jony Ive more so than Tim Cook, receive special attention similar to Elon Musk on TMC. As I've said prior, single brand forums are often more hostile in this regard than multi-brand ones, because former often attract people who are more interested in camaraderie than intensive information gathering, and may more easily feel the latter takes away from the enjoyment of the board.
I would so there is one difference between Apple sites and TMC, though. Apple sites in general, not even the most loyal ones, are not against publishing or even promoting leaks, where as that still seems a bit sore topic on TMC, although the Gizmodo case showed even their limit.
I don't disagree Eds offered alleged information mixed with forward-looking views and obvious conjecture. Separating those as well as discussing his motivations is fair game - even required in my opinion.
My view is that alone wouldn't have made Eds anything bigger, we would have quickly concluded we can't know for sure and left as one of many potential data points of unknown veracity.
What made Eds bigger was the significant effort to question him/her and attach motives like stock market manipulation in the very first and many subsequent responses he got. AnOutsider made a valiant but useless effort to reign in such reactions.
It is different to ponder Eds' motivations than to act like he/she has a nefarious agenda affecting his/her info. People break NDAs on Internet all the time with real data, dismissing him/her just based on that is not realistic.
I'm with anticitizen13.7 in that I don't necessarily believe everything Eds said at all, but was willing to consider openly, and that a main gist of his/her leak indeed turned out to be true.
vandacca: Separating opinion from alleged information claims is not hard at all in Eds' case. A few posters did a very good job of it in this thread. The problem is many people didn't seem to want to really think the leak through (even all real leaks are based on limited info and thus of limited reliability) and instead attacked it, making it bigger than it was.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Perhaps what made Eds bigger was the propensity of certain folks to keep raising his name, even on unrelated topics. The "AR effect" as it's become known. ;-)
I'd be willing to bet that they will have plenty of people willing to finalize their reservation without a test drive. I know of a few
Reservation 7004 is one of these "few" willing to finalize without a test drive
Of course, but I opine it is not AR effect, it is the TMC effect.
We wouldn't get bogged down discussing Eds if TMC (as in the community/culture here) hadn't made the topic and its kind inflammable. My mention of Eds didn't cause this diversion, Eds' original leak or claim didn't cause that magnitude of diversion either. What happens is caused by us all together reacting to some event, because of our inability - for whatever reason - to calmly discuss claims like those of Eds'. Such posters and thus mentions of them become quickly very inflammable on TMC.
All it takes is someone even mentioning Eds and a thread blows up. Or making a leak about Tesla, and a thread blows up. In normal circumstances such mention would have merited no - or not much - further discussion and there would be no issue in mentioning Eds or anyone. Or making Eds' claims in a leak thread. It would be normal discourse and no grounds for attacks, snide remarks or dismissive comments about stock manipulation or people in mirrors.
But the mere mention of Eds blows up because the topic is inflammable on TMC, because of our inability to discuss Eds calmly - for whatever reason. Same with almost every leak thread there is. It is not even (always anyway) the fault of TMC moderation, as in here AnOutsider - as in many leaks threads - tried to calm down the pitchforks without any effect. It is us. And no, not just me. You too. And others. The membership makes the place.
It doesn't help that in the case of Eds and others material disappears without much explanation on what and why. That only adds to the notoriety and attention. Maybe Eds asked for the material to be removed, maybe Tesla did, we don't know which and what because TMC (the moderation in this case) chose to stay silent about it. Depending on which moderators are active in threads or how, this can accelerate of decelerate the effect quite a bit.
Sure, I play a part as a member of TMC. But only a part. You play a part too, as do many others, it is out interaction - all of us - that creates the dynamic of this fine place. (People call me over active at times, but the stats show that on average you've posted almost twice as many messages on TMC annually compared to myself, for example.) For whatever reason some people jump the gun real fast and that in return causes the likes of myself react to it and attempt to steer the conversation to a wider perspective - and then the tit-for-tat goes on and on and on - and often gets nowhere as people talk past each other or stop talking at all and resort to snide remarks and dismissive jokes instead.
And that's why IMO the Streisand effect is applicable - things like Eds become bigger on TMC because of the dismissive and/or annoyed reaction, not smaller as I guess some would hope by such a response. A calm discussion of Eds, instead of denial or getting all worked up about a mere mention of Eds, would have made it go away faster, in my opinion. Same with removals - I understand that TMC may want to honor removal requests, but in that case the Streisand effect is accelerated by those who made the removal requests and TMC's decision to stay silent on clarifying the requests, it just gets more critical attention to the issue.
My take is, a lot of people didn't want Eds to be right (or vocal at all), and acted accordingly. Others, like myself, wanted to talk if Eds could be right and faced people that were already convinced there was nothing to even discuss. This made it hard to move forwards with the thread and flesh out some middle ground. I really don't think many or any of us thought Eds would be completely right, perhaps not even right at all (he could have been a mere troll, although now it seems unlikely), but it was hard to even consider it here for whatever reason - I guess that is still the reality today as well, as the mere mention of Eds gets noticed.
I doubt that makes it less likely that Eds is mentioned again. Quite the contrary.
Sure, I agree that the take-down contributed to the lengthening of this discussion. However, there was a long discussion long before the take-down, due to he-who-shall-not-be-named's inflammatory posting. He clearly had negative feelings that caused an immediate backlash from the TMC community. I think he-who-shall-not-be-named is at least 33% responsible for the length of this conversation and the take-down request is responsible for another 33%. The rest of it is due to AR and this community. Yes, I probably shouldn't have responded because I'm just adding to the conversation, but I promise this will be my last post regarding he-who-shall-not-be-named.
Yes AR, maybe he posted twice as many messages, but if you go by number of words, I think you're the clear winner! :smile:
BTW, how is your blog coming along? Have you considered a topic yet?
Of course, if the latest X's that have been spotted really are release candidates they might find their way into showrooms in the meantime.
Not that I completely disagree with you or anything, but I think a big issue were the critical responses Eds got - and that seemed to annoy him/her and escalate things too already on the first page of the thread, far before any removals. And let's face it, a lot of critical and leak threads on TMC get a very brutal response, no matter how nicely they would be worded.
It escalates things that might otherwise stay very small...I'll spare you of any such thing. Model X is around the corner, let's see what we can learn from the end-result vs. speculation then. It will surely be educational, as we'll learn a lot of how perhaps to interpret Elon and Tesla's public testing in the future. I have no idea what will come out, but my signature has a list of all the speculation, so we can check then if there was any point to it all.
Not to mention if it is the camp JST or camp bonnie who takes the wager cake - I have sat on the sidelines on that (I really don't know, although I guess JST's take is more likely), so no cake for me.
Maybe a blog for Model 3?
Or maybe not.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Krugerrand
Meow
Just in case anyone missed it: The squirrel ran out of the building ages ago. You're playing with empty air now.
The showroom off the Fremont Delivery Center has been blocked off and the glass doors covered over for a while now, so perhaps they are using that one as the pilot?
