[Rumor] Significant Engineering Issues with Model 3

[AnxietyRanger]

Shouldn't we be more astonished if there aren't any significant issues discovered in the first batch of a product newly designed complex product? I'd go further - I'd be suspicious they weren't testing thoroughly enough if there weren't.

Well, Tesla self-admitting to skipping beta vehicles and going directly to release candidates certainly suggests some haste is possible. And of course Tesla has a history of quality and ramp-up issues with its new (and even a bit older) vehicles.

What is being said does not at least sound impossible.

 

[bro1999]

Your statement is exactly why I don't believe it. That post is right here on this forum and you got it wrong. Not only did you get it wrong, you added your two cents to the wrong statement and made it even worse.

What did I get wrong?
Model S delivered with serious defect (cracked A-pillar)? Check.
Model S a vehicle that has been produced for almost 5 years? Check.
Crack was painted over? Check.

Please enlighten me.

 

[tono]

It's simple, they have to be the new engines. That is why AWD production is delayed.

 

[deonb]

May be the issue will be fixed in 3 months, I have no idea, they weren't confident either way. I can say the sentiment seemed to be that internally this schedule is certainly rushed.

So you may or may not know about an engineer issue that may or may not exist and it will or won't be fixed at some point in the future.

All you know is that they're rushed.

You just literally described every engineering project in the world... ever.

 

[EvanLin]

I talked to some folks recently who gave some insight into the current state of the Model 3.

Most worryingly is some very important components are currently being produced with high failure rates. This is due to design changes (vs Model S) to make manufacturing more economical. Those involved are not showing high confidence that these problems will definitely be solved on time.

More positive news is that the internal goal is still July to begin production, although at a lower rate that stated elsewhere (<100 / wk).

Overall I have concerns that they will be on time with a reliable product. I am a fan/investor so I am not rooting for this, but wanted to let you know what I heard.

Nice to hear that.
As an engineer in car industry (or any industry), it's not a surprise to me.

New designs always have new problems, as well as manufacturing.
You can only discover them on a beta car or a finished product. That's why beta-testing is important.

Canceling any phase of beta-testing is never a good idea.
Now it seems the only reason is "hurry to get it on the market" but not confidence from better quality...

I would say the quality issue will be higher than previous models, which means you will need more 1,5 year to settle it down.

 

[malcolm]

Most worryingly is some very important components are currently being produced with high failure rates.

You had me at "worryingly".

Be still, my Shorts.

 

[bonnie]

The wisdom of putting employees at the front of the Model 3 delivery line is not only going to reward them with the first vehicles -- but the fact that they're building them for each other will quickly drive up quality. After all, they know where to find the person responsible for any problem with their new Model 3.

 

[alseTrick]

I see a lot of wadded up panties in here.

Anyone that thinks the 3 is going to have a flawless launch is a dang fool.

Tesla already cancelled a parts order it said didn't meet its quality standards.

Go get incensed about something else.

 

[S3XY]

I see a lot of wadded up panties in here.

Anyone that thinks the 3 is going to have a flawless launch is a dang fool.

Tesla already cancelled a parts order it said didn't meet its quality standards.

Go get incensed about something else.

HUD ("Heads Up Display") Discussion

 

[malcolm]

I see a lot of wadded up panties in here.

Anyone that thinks the 3 is going to have a flawless launch is a dang fool.
.........
Go get incensed about something else.

Okie dokie

One man's wad is another man's stretch pants.

 

[Garlan Garner]

How did this discussion get 3 pages?

It was click bait from the beginning. I guess it worked.

 

[malcolm]

How did this discussion get 3 pages?

Like it usually does:
A little trolling
A little ranting
Some grandstanding
Showboating
Sharkjumping
Plus occasional insights (not from me, obviously)

It's what happens when intelligent people get bored and look for displacement activities.

Tedium + Minds = Content
T.M.C.

 

[tsla007]

90% of the car is software driven-patches and updates usually fix things. It won't be like a normal recall if something happens to be wrong.
This is one of the reasons Elon and Tesla are building it with simplicity. The more simple the less can go wrong.

 

[Reciprocity]

Why is everyone so hung up on the term "Release Candidate" vs Beta. RC is just a fancy way of saying it is a Beta that they think they can release. It doesn't really change anything, they still test the RC the same way they test the betas, they just believe its farther along then they had expected. Just like Beta's there can be multiple iterations of Release Candidates. I think what was most interesting about Elon's comments on the subject was the fact that the Release Candidates we see in the wild today were mostly made on the production line and not mostly made by hand. I think that is what is significant about these cars that makes them something a bit more then a beta. This is a good thing, because it means that they can focus on finding issues while testing cars that are closer to production and that moving from hand built beta cars to the production line does not expose new issues related to the production line vs being hand built as they bypassed the purely beta stage. This does not mean they wont be testing as much as possible. In fact, it could mean a lot more testing because they can product more test cars, faster, because they are using a production line to do so. There is no value in a pure beta stage with hand built cars when you can use cars off the production line and find issues that will actually impact production, since the cars will not be hand built int the future.

As many have stated, building cars with thousands of parts many of which never existed before this process, is a difficult task and issues come up. There are no FWD to screw things up. The car is simpler then the S and vastly simpler than the X. They have more engineer talent then they ever had and they will figure it out. I am sure there are dozens of instances where what the original poster is alluding to that his source doesn't know about. This stuff is not easy. This is a big reason why many old school automakers expected Tesla to fail long ago. These guys land rockets that went to space then relaunch them. They will figure this out. Have faith.

 

[GSP]

@Reciprocity,

It is not the "release candidate" name, it is the fact that Tesla did not have cars to test until only three months before production is supposed to start.

It is pretty much a given that problems will be found when cars are actually built and tested. Some issues can easily take more than three months to design a fix, build it, test it, and make or modify production tooling to produce it in volume.

If the fix fails it's test, and this is not uncommon, there is no time for a second attempt.

GSP

 

[JeffK]

the fact that Tesla did not have cars to test until only three months before production is supposed to start.

I don't know about you, but I'm sure I saw two working engineering prototypes at launch in March of last year.

With Tesla's Kaizen philosophy I think that as long as they continue to find and fix any issues before launch we'll be in good shape. The first two months are probably both allocated to employee deliveries so there's still plenty of time.

 

[Reciprocity]

It is not the "release candidate" name, it is the fact that Tesla did not have cars to test until only three months before production is supposed to start.

If you thinka bout it, they really skipped the Alpha stage. They had beta's, you saw the silver one and a grey one at the reveal. You dont think they "Tested" those cars? For all intense and purposes those were hand built betas. Could it possibly be that they didnt find a ton of major issues with those cars? I mean, this stuff is not magic. They cant just go from hand built to production line without knowing what they are doing and resolving issues. The production line is mostly machines, so they cant compensate on the fly for issues, it has to be very dialed in before a machine and build it. Its really not possible to setup the production line to manufacture a car that has not been tested. The fact that a "Very early release candidate" which really means beta to me, came off the manufacturing line 3-4 months before production seems way ahead of schedule to me. Certainly they are rushing and more issues are sure to arise, but this car is much simpler then its predecessors.

 

[SageBrush]

I'm waiting to read from OP why he thought it important to post what can only be read by others as rumor or hearsay at best, or trash-talk from a stock short

 

[Lesifass]

I'll take it for what it's worth and not treat it like a fact, but I'm not sure the OP just made this up.

It's positive that they believe that they might be able to fix it before the planned launch date. So even if this turns out to be true, it's hopefully solveable within a reasonable timespan!

 

[bro1999]

I'll take it for what it's worth and not treat it like a fact, but I'm not sure the OP just made this up.

It's positive that they believe that they might be able to fix it before the planned launch date. So even if this turns out to be true, it's hopefully solveable within a reasonable timespan!

Yeah, if this guy was really a shorter, why would he say there is hope the problems can still be overcome in time? Wouldn't a true short just go "OMG! HUGE SUPPLIER PROBLEMS!! PRODUCTION SCHEDULE SCREWED!!"?