Salespeople Misinformed About My Inventory Model S Purchase

[AnxietyRanger]

If you are replying to me, I agree with you.

The point I'm making is that he did get the current "model".

He's taking issue with options that may not even have been "available" on cars being ordered new, much less previous inventory vehicles.

Let's be clear about one thing, though:

AutoPilot is now a standard feature. The sensors and their safety features.

(Tech Package with convenience features for AutoPilot is optional.) So, as of now at the very least, the current model of Tesla Model S always has AutoPilot.

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Nor should one ever fall into the trap of thinking that 'being critical of everything' is the same thing as 'critical thinking'.

The tricky part with what you've said here is that typically someone believes they are able to judge that the other person is 'merely a fan' and unable to apply critical thinking skills. It's one thing for a person to declare themselves a fan. It's another for someone to call them a 'fanboy'. One is with an open heart, the other is dismissive.

Deciding someone else is taking it as a personal insult because their idol has been criticized is ... well, where to start? There are a lot of assumptions there. Someone has to believe they are so much smarter than the other to judge those types of motivations and just dismiss any other possible cause. And of course that type of smugness would kill off any possibility of finding common ground, don't you think?

I agree. And dismissing someone as a fanboy can certainly be done without merit, as can be dismissing someone's complaint as, say, selfish whining. These extremes are inviting to our worse demons, yet often misleading caricatures. At the very least we should all strive to read each other as individuals, not as members of some perceived group, which can be hard online sometimes. People with complaints about the Tesla upgrades and their own sales process have been lumped together by some, but I'm sure equally some of us (probably myself included) has made the mistake of lumping critical responses to those together too. Yet, all of these people are individuals and many have very different opinions and reasons for saying the things they say. Treating them as one mass isn't good. Generalizations are bad and best avoided.

I don't, by the way, have anything but the utmost respect to your level-headedness as a moderator and vast knowledge and experience of all things Tesla you have offered here, that much is clear to me after my so far short stint as a Tesla buyer and owner. If I could request anything is perhaps a bit more open mind about some criticism towards Tesla and a bit more critique towards those who haven't been quite as welcoming of the critical towards Tesla voices, so that people would feel welcome in airing their grievances without attack. I think that would add more greatness to an already great forum. Just my humble opinion, of course.

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I find accusing people of lying in a cavalier manner insulting.

Words are important, and they have specific meaning. This is particularly the case when one is accusing others of acting with malice, as the original title of this thread did.

Yet it was clear that the OP did not understand that definitively stating that he was lied to, and then subsequently allowing for the likelihood that in fact the other party was ignorant of developments, was a contradiction in his own statements.

Well, I also find selective reading of people often a bit too convenient.

Reading the totality of the OP's first post definitely isn't just an accusation of lies, even though the subject-line makes it seem that way. I agree the subject probably was a bad choice (unless he really was lied to, which I find unlikely, as did the OP by the way) and the moderation to change it perfectly fair move.

I think a bit too much has been made of that misleading subject, considering it has already been changed *and* the OP has posted very nice words of the sales people themselves in an update post. It feels a bit like talking past the actual story, to keep away from the actual story. I wonder if that is intentional on how many people's part, to avoid talking about the subject itself.

 

[dsm363]

The actual story is simple. The sensors were rolled out two weeks early before the announcement (I'd imagine not everyone at HQ was even aware of this so I doubt an entry level sales person was). The website showed the exact same options the day he bought his inventory car so he did get a 'current' model.

 

[HankLloydRight]

The actual story is simple. The sensors were rolled out two weeks early before the announcement (I'd imagine not everyone at HQ was even aware of this so I doubt an entry level sales person was). The website showed the exact same options the day he bought his inventory car so he did get a 'current' model.

And not only that, if he/she had bought a brand new car on that same day (without sensors) even that car was the "current" model, since none of those features had been announced or activated yet.

 

[breser]

And not only that, if he/she had bought a brand new car on that same day (without sensors) even that car was the "current" model, since none of those features had been announced or activated yet.

Not announced no. But there were cars with the lane departure and speed assist features active at least from 9/22. We had photos of how it worked by 9/23.

 

[scaesare]

Well, I also find selective reading of people often a bit too convenient.

Reading the totality of the OP's first post definitely isn't just an accusation of lies, even though the subject-line makes it seem that way. I agree the subject probably was a bad choice (unless he really was lied to, which I find unlikely, as did the OP by the way) and the moderation to change it perfectly fair move.

I think a bit too much has been made of that misleading subject, considering it has already been changed *and* the OP has posted very nice words of the sales people themselves in an update post. It feels a bit like talking past the actual story, to keep away from the actual story. I wonder if that is intentional on how many people's part, to avoid talking about the subject itself.

All of which happened after a I made the post seanahan took issue with. Please look at the context and the timing of what I was replying to there.

That having been said, there is a difference between what were "current" options on the model he was buying at the time, and what became generally available afterward. He got what was then considered current in the ordering system. No different than other people who ordered, and got the unexpected bonus of new sensors.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

All of which happened after a I made the post seanahan took issue with. Please look at the context and the timing of what I was replying to there.

That having been said, there is a difference between what were "current" options on the model he was buying at the time, and what became generally available afterward. He got what was then considered current in the ordering system. No different than other people who ordered, and got the unexpected bonus of new sensors.

Fair enough. But let's agree, I hope, that the OP hasn't really been pushing the lie angle, he didn't even in the first post (which predates everything else in this thread). I think we, at least, shouldn't hold it too much against him after the clarifications.

Another thing, if the OP's purchasing moment (or the moment he confirmed with sales people it was current model) was such that the old model was still current, then that's that. I think the timing is tight/vague enough to not be quite sure, but I agree if the old model was still the one being delivered, then that is fine and he got what he asked. If the new model was already rolling from the factory to buyers, then the OP may have a case and Tesla might do good to fix it. (In any case, all this brings us to the other discussion of what else Tesla could have done to amend disappointment of such close-call purchases, maybe they could do something, but that is a different discussion than this thread.)

 

[breser]

Another thing, if the OP's purchasing moment (or the moment he confirmed with sales people it was current model) was such that the old model was still current, then that's that. I think the timing is tight/vague enough to not be quite sure, but I agree if the old model was still the one being delivered, then that is fine and he got what he asked. If the new model was already rolling from the factory to buyers, then the OP may have a case and Tesla might do good to fix it. (In any case, all this brings us to the other discussion of what else Tesla could have done to amend disappointment of such close-call purchases, maybe they could do something, but that is a different discussion than this thread.)

Assuming he asked the question about current on the finalization date of 9/24 then yes vehicles were being delivered with the sensors and active lane departure and seed assist features.

The first post saying that someone had received lane departure and speed assist was on 9/22:
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 13

Pictures of the interface was posted the next morning (9/23):
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 14

By that afternoon (9/23) we had pictures of the speed assist working:
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 17

And pictures of the sensors around the windshield:
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 17

And then pictures of the radar on the bumper:
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 18

First pictures of the additional sensors on the sides of the bumpers (9/24) and this is basically the first confirmation from someone else that this was real:
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 19

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Assuming he asked the question about current on the finalization date of 9/24 then yes vehicles were being delivered with the sensors and active lane departure and seed assist features.

The first post saying that someone had received lane departure and speed assist was on 9/22:
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 13

Pictures of the interface was posted the next morning (9/23):
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 14

By that afternoon (9/23) we had pictures of the speed assist working:
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 17

And pictures of the sensors around the windshield:
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 17

And then pictures of the radar on the bumper:
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 18

First pictures of the additional sensors on the sides of the bumpers (9/24) and this is basically the first confirmation from someone else that this was real:
Speed Assist and Lane Departure Warning - Page 19

Thank you, if indeed it went down like that, it seems he may well have a case - if he really pressed the current angle as much as he said he did and did so after 9/22.

 

[yobigd20]

-sigh- So even though HE said it was over the top, you're not going to let it go. No point in discussing further, is there?

 

[Pruitt]

So maybe Tesla should remotely disable all those "freebie" features people got / are getting that weren't listed as available on the order page prior to October 9. That way they're available for use ONLY if you ordered after they were announced. It won't matter if your car has the hardware; you won't be able to use it.

Will that mollify all those complaining that they didn't get them?

Of course, that would probably start another firestorm of complaints, but at least this time 'round it will be more than "...he did and I didn't!"

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Somebody needs to get a life...

 

[breser]

So maybe Tesla should remotely disable all those "freebie" features people got / are getting that weren't listed as available on the order page prior to October 9. That way they're available for use ONLY if you ordered after they were announced. It won't matter if your car has the hardware; you won't be able to use it.

Will that mollify all those complaining that they didn't get them?

Of course, that would probably start another firestorm of complaints, but at least this time 'round it will be more than "...he did and I didn't!"

No they should not. For one thing (not that you're necessarily doing this now) it'll just be a great way to vilify those of us who have this complaint.

But to some degree that's already what seems to be happening. Tesla is dividing the sensor features into safety and convenience categories. Everyone with sensors gets the safety features. Those with the new Tech Package that includes Autopilot get the convenience features (e.g. ACC). They're telling people who have cars with the sensors but without the new Tech Package that they'll need to pay the $500 to upgrade to it.

That seems really silly to me if they already ordered the tech package considering that the Fog Lights (which were $500) were rolled into it.

The parking sensors appear to have been made standard for everyone (though some employees are saying that's what was rolled into the Tech Package and what accounts for the $500 upgrade). At least there have been reports of cars without the Tech Package or Parking Sensor options have working Parking Sensors.

To some degree I get the sense that even Tesla at large doesn't know what the package changes mean on these cars that are getting the hardware changes but haven't been ordered with the new ordering system.

 

[Bighorn]

Seanahan,
You quoted me incompletely:

Originally Posted by bighorn Not worthy of further comment or assistance

With 4 words you could have put it in context. I prefaced that statement with "Libel, pure and simple." --a context you never comprehended because you didn't see the OP's original title, apparently. It is an accurate statement and appropriately dismissive. Your indignation is both misplaced and ignorant of the facts. Carry on with your apologies.

 

[Krugerrand]

For one thing (not that you're necessarily doing this now) it'll just be a great way to vilify those of us who have this complaint.

Huh?

If people feel they've been treated unfairly by Tesla and as a result Tesla moves to the action put forth, why in the world is your first thought that it would be cause to be vilified? That doesn't seem to parallel your posts of late. Is it that you want a resolution for those currently upset with Tesla, but only if it makes them look like saints?

 

[breser]

Huh?

If people feel they've been treated unfairly by Tesla and as a result Tesla moves to the action put forth, why in the world is your first thought that it would be cause to be vilified? That doesn't seem to parallel your posts of late. Is it that you want a resolution for those currently upset with Tesla, but only if it makes them look like saints?

No I already feel vilified on this forum. If Tesla turns around and starts disabling the hardware for the people suddenly I'm going to be the bad guy and it'll all be my fault. I've already been accused of arguing to do that in other threads (which I have not).

Maybe it isn't obvious to you but I'd like to see Tesla maximize the customer experience. The current situation made some people feel really great (they got something new and unexpected) and some people feel not so great (they missed out and didn't have an opportunity to control their destiny). Turning around and ripping out that thing from the people who felt great doesn't do that. If none of us had ever had it I think that would be a better overall situation. But retroactively removing it is not a good idea either.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Wow. This thread...

 

[Pruitt]

No they should not. For one thing (not that you're necessarily doing this now) it'll just be a great way to vilify those of us who have this complaint.

It wasn't really a serious suggestion; more of an attempt to point out that, in this case at least, you can't un-explode the bomb without setting off an even bigger one.

But it does bring up an interesting question:

As we all know, Tesla started installing the hardware before the announcement. If they had simply not enabled that hardware and instituted a policy that they would never do so for any cars ordered prior to the first order date for the new capabilities (October 9), would not having the new features still be such a big issue for some folks?

 

[Krugerrand]

No I already feel vilified on this forum.

That seems a dramatic feeling for the situation. You're anonymous, so no one knows you personally (or at most just a handful of forum members know you personally) and therefore most (all?) here shouldn't have a whole lot of power over you like someone in your inner circle whom you admire and respect. Anything particularly offensive/personal would have been removed/moved to the snippiness thread by the moderators, and you had plenty of supportive posts from which to draw happy feelings. Any chance you're over reacting or taking things too personal?

If none of us had ever had it I think that would be a better overall situation.

Irrelevant. Spilled milk and all that.

So moving forward, what solution do you have where Tesla gets to keep being Tesla without hurting themselves in any way (example: the Osborne Effect that many have mentioned), all customers are happy, and there's no risk of you being vilified? I put forth that there is no solution to satisfy all those criteria simply because people are involved.

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As we all know, Tesla started installing the hardware before the announcement. If they had simply not enabled that hardware and instituted a policy that they would never do so for any cars ordered prior to the first order date for the new capabilities (October 9), would not having the new features still be such a big issue for some folks?

To my knowledge, nobody has Autopilot. That's going to be rolled out in a few (many?) months down the road. So what you're talking about are a small group of people (someone could probably do the math by estimating weekly production and number of days of production of the feature), who got a couple of minor driver assist features. Put in that context, how big of a deal is it now?

But let's say Tesla had done what you suggest and announced that that small group of people who got the hardware on their cars would have no opportunity to have it, even if they offered to pay for the software update, do you honestly think that some people of that group wouldn't feel the same kind of unfairness/injustice as some people do now? (That's a rhetorical question.)

 

[CliffG]

Wow. This thread...

similarly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPXVGQnJm0w#t=15

 

[breser]

That seems a dramatic feeling for the situation. You're anonymous, so no one knows you personally (or at most just a handful of forum members know you personally) and therefore most (all?) here shouldn't have a whole lot of power over you like someone in your inner circle whom you admire and respect. Anything particularly offensive/personal would have been removed/moved to the snippiness thread by the moderators, and you had plenty of supportive posts from which to draw happy feelings. Any chance you're over reacting or taking things too personal?

What does being anonymous have anything to do with feeling vilified? There has been plenty of harsh reaction to my posts to go around. The root meaning of a lot of them is just that I'm a bad person for feeling the way I feel. Not sure how I could be taking direct responses to me as too personal. Especially one poster repeatedly telling me that I just wanted to take the sensors away from the people that got them.

So moving forward, what solution do you have where Tesla gets to keep being Tesla without hurting themselves in any way (example: the Osborne Effect that many have mentioned), all customers are happy, and there's no risk of you being vilified? I put forth that there is no solution to satisfy all those criteria simply because people are involved.

I'm not foolish enough to suppose that I can propose anything that would fix it to the degree of making all customers happy now that things have already gone down the way they have. Both you and I know that's an impossible task.

I've already gone over multiple different solutions to how things could have been handled differently from the start. They have various advantages and disadvantages but I think they could have minimized the dissatisfaction. No point in really going over that again.