SeminoleFSU
Voluntaryist
Me too! Thanks to everyone who helped. @Boeingpilot checking his FW version and finding his success was v164 was what caused me to give it one last go with that FW and it worked!
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Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter
- Thread starter Boeingpilot
- Start date
srs5694
Active Member
FWIW, my Model 3 updated to 2022.12.3.20 firmware a few days ago, so today I went to the same EA site to test it. It worked fine, although the car now displays the "arc flash hazard" warning that others have noted. Given this fact, my guess is that Tesla has decided that the in-dash warning is adequate from a legal CYA perspective. OTOH, I know others are saying that their cars are displaying that warning and not working, but that failure could be some other issue -- it's not like the Setec adapter has been flawless for everybody from Day One. This is very speculative, but in another thread it's been suggested that some providers' CCS chargers might be shutting down Teslas that are detected to be charging via an adapter, so that's a possibility, too.
softcoder
Member
If the car can still charge, it seems irresponsible to make a firmware update that prevents the car from displaying a life safety warning, as is the case with the arc flash hazard message.
Just my $0.02, not that anyone asked.
Just my $0.02, not that anyone asked.
GHammer
Dark Star
Agreed, although I think Tesla's warning is a bit over the top. A more informative message from Tesla like "non-locking adapter in use, do not disconnect while charging" would suffice instead of the "...HAZARD use different charging equipment". But since Tesla has seemingly been satisfied with just displaying a warning and not shutting it down entirely, I'm afraid a removal of the message will just escalate things and potentially cause Tesla to start disabling it again. In the end, I think Setec will lose in a whack-a-mole battle.
Now that the official Tesla CCS adapter is available in the US, that battle is entering its final stages. No possible way for Setec to remain relevant even in the middle term as the Tesla hardware is significantly superior in every way: cheaper, allows faster charging, properly locks so is safer to use, smaller & lighter & less cumbersome to use, direct pass-through type adapter means any malfunction would be with a Tesla part on car so the car's warranty covers you against damages, etc.
The only things propping up Setec's equipment right now is that Tesla doesn't yet offer the retrofit to the charge port ECU to allow cars that don't currently support CCS to be "CCS enabled" and that the Tesla adapter is currently only available through South Korea, so buyers need to jump through some extra hoops to get it. But the types of buyers willing to buy the Setec product are likely also the type willing to jump through the hoops necessary to get the adapter from Korea. Once Tesla's adapter is officially available through the North American Tesla store, even the buying process will favor Tesla.
I think the severity of the warning is appropriate. Any random person could come along and disconnect it while energized, having no idea of the hazard. Telling the driver not to disconnect while charging does not protect the public from potentially fatal electrical hazards.
Now that Tesla has this warning, SETEC, if they choose to proceed with this firmware update, are exposing themselves to huge liability.
GHammer
Dark Star
Any random person coming along is not going to see any warning, it's not like its displayed outside the car and besides any random person unplugging my car gets what they deserve.
Edit: I am being facetious, i dont really believe people deserve to be seriously injured for just unplugging a car.
Edit: I am being facetious, i dont really believe people deserve to be seriously injured for just unplugging a car.
Last edited:
Right, which is why Tesla’s warning specifies to use different charging equipment.
I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that ignoring the warning makes the driver liable. SETEC sending a firmware update that prevents the warning from displaying, without fixing the underlying problem, makes them liable (or maybe both parties in some cases, since this conversation is in the public domain).
The warning isn't for the rando passerby, it's telling the driver not to create a hazard, i.e. use different charging equipment so that you don't create this hazardous situation in which someone might get hurt and then sue you.
We really need some idiot vandal to come along and start bashing on an DCFC connector (of any variety) and get themselves seriously injured or killed. That way we get the word out that messing with a charging EV is right up there with flying kites near power lines.
I do agree that the Setec warning should be kept, but add something to the effect of not leaving your car unattended while using the adapter and steps to safely disconnect. Tesla really has brought this on themselves though, they should have released an adapter 3+ years ago.
I do agree that the Setec warning should be kept, but add something to the effect of not leaving your car unattended while using the adapter and steps to safely disconnect. Tesla really has brought this on themselves though, they should have released an adapter 3+ years ago.
GHammer
Dark Star
Well I guess in that case the warning isn't explicit enough. It never occurred to me It was warning me about my liability for unauthorized people unplugging my car without my knowledge.
srs5694
Active Member
My nightmare scenario is that a kid would unplug the car and get quite the surprise. A "kid" could be anything from a poorly-supervised toddler to an emotionally-immature legal adult who thinks it'd be amusing to unplug a stranger's car. Given that Setec is a Chinese company, I expect they're pretty well insulated from US lawsuits, so I expect that the owner would become the target of any lawsuit. I don't know if an insurance company would pick up claims, but the presence of a warning message when using the hardware might be used by the insurance company to get out of paying. Of course, all this assumes a civil suit, not a criminal charge, if the injury is bad enough to merit that.
All that said, there were some reports in another thread about how Tesla's own adapter doesn't always prevent the CCS plug from being disconnected. Apparently some CCS plugs are worn enough and/or enough out of spec that Tesla's retaining pin doesn't always properly secure it. Thus, Tesla's adapter might be susceptible to the same hazard, although probably not as much.
All that said, there were some reports in another thread about how Tesla's own adapter doesn't always prevent the CCS plug from being disconnected. Apparently some CCS plugs are worn enough and/or enough out of spec that Tesla's retaining pin doesn't always properly secure it. Thus, Tesla's adapter might be susceptible to the same hazard, although probably not as much.
Exelion
Member
If the pin on the adapter is broken, well, we’ll probably know about it. The pin is simple enough to see if it broke off-part of it is metal and seems sturdy enough. I’m even willing to guess there’s an indicator which will prevent charging if the car-side of the pin is broken and the pin stops moving.
Tesla’s CCS1 adapter is nowhere near as susceptible to the arc hazard as the Setec CCS1, not even close.
If the CCS charging handle safety latch is faulty or broken, that’s not on the adapter manufacturer, or the car owner. That’s on the charging company, whether it be EA, EVGo, Chargepoint, etc.
Truth is, as safe as we can make things, stuff breaks. Kids will be kids, and jerks are going to do stupid things. If someone got hurt because they did something they’re not supposed to, should I be responsible for it?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It's not completely clear from the post that the adapter was still locked in the car (as a new one apparently is very tight) while the CCS was released. It's entirely possible that both were released already.
That said, as others mentioned, if the issue was a broken tang on the station side, that's on the station, not the car/adapter. Tesla would have met the CCS standard already.
softcoder
Member
I could see a useful modification for the Setec if they are able to support old and new Tesla models.. old models without CCS chip fall back to chademo 50kw max and new do CCS1 passthrough to max speed, this would make the adapter useful for all Tesla models and not require the ccs1 chip upgrade which could be expensive.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
From the passthrough mod upthread (which basically involved gutting it), it doesn't appear possible with the current adapter as it is, due to how it was wired up. It wouldn't be safe either given the wiring likely isn't designed to handle the amps a passthrough adapter would need to handle.
Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter
I'm not sure if they redesigned it, that it would be any less expensive than just buying a Setec and a separate dumb CCS adapter.
softcoder
Member
Well its now Q3 and still no Tesla CCS adapter sold in north america. Its not a good strategy for Tesla to stop selling all high speed adapters since late last year as it causes havok and artificially raises prices in that market, they are selling the product in South Korea and yet its needed even more in north america. Owners are having to get create just to get their car home from the dealership in areas that lack superchargers of which there are many
masotime
Member
The Harumio adapter has been really easy to purchase though, and the price isn't too bad. I don't understand Tesla's unwillingness to sell it here in the US, but then I don't really understand their CEO either so I'm not too surprised. The Setec adapter was fine while it was the only option - but honestly if an owner's Tesla supports it, the official adapter is by far the superior option - (much) faster potential speeds, lighter, safer and no dependence on an internal processor/battery.
I keep multiple options in my Tesla (official CCS, Setec CCS, official CHADeMO, J1772 adapter, NEMA 14-50) just in case. Several areas in places such as Central Nevada (US-50) and southern Colorado are very lacking in Superchargers and it really helps to be secure with several backup charge options.
I keep multiple options in my Tesla (official CCS, Setec CCS, official CHADeMO, J1772 adapter, NEMA 14-50) just in case. Several areas in places such as Central Nevada (US-50) and southern Colorado are very lacking in Superchargers and it really helps to be secure with several backup charge options.
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