Signature Angst

[Joel]

In fairness, Todd only ordered his car last August. At that point, the full spectrum of the Sig value proposition (or lack thereof) was readily apparent. The point that AO, Michiganmodels, I and others have made is that we ordered our Sigs years earlier with much less actual information, but promises that essentially weren't delivered on in the way we expected (something besides unique colors), and we were charged more for the privilege.

To me, this was always Tesla's fundamental mistake with Sigs -- Tesla was already getting (hopefully) the profits off of us buying fully loaded Sigs. Charging a hefty premium on top of that with no discernible benefits (other than earlier delivery, which wasn't that big a benefit for early Sig reservations), coupled with the usual hiccups of a ramp-up like Tesla had as Sigs started rolling off the line (including poor communications), made for unnecessarily frustrated Sig owners, who otherwise could and should have been Tesla's biggest advocates and fans.

I still push everyone I talk to to buy a Model S (or any EV) and sing Tesla's praises. I couldn't love my car any more. I've completely forgiven Tesla, but I'll never forget, which is why I would never recommend that someone else buy a Sig unless line-jumping is worthwhile for them.

+1 Well said

 

[Doug_G]

Totally agree.

 

[neroden]

I'm kinda conflicted on this. I don't think the Signature was good value for the money...

OK, I'm going to share what Angie Schmitt (sp?) told me when I originally called and was saying "Do I want to get a Signature or a Standard?"
She said, paraphrasing, "Most people getting Signatures are getting them to get the car early. If you don't care about the unique exterior or interior color, you should decide based on how much you care about getting the car early." I ended up reserving a Signature, but then cancelling and later reserving a Standard.

In short, Signatures are not good value for money, *unless you value getting your car early very highly*, and Angie was honest enough to admit it.

However, since there's still an "option value" in Signature reservations (just in case they turn out to be worth it), people with lots of cash will probably make the reservations and then drop down to Standards when the time comes to commit. That is a particularly bad situation for Tesla economically.

 

[ToddRLockwood]

Interesting turnabout. Your original post had a very different tone and content. This post is basically agreeing with the general tenor of this thread. I'm somewhat confused by the difference. Nonetheless, not worth dwelling on I suppose.

Brian, I now understand why my original post offended a few people. I had always assumed that everyone had access to the full range of sig and non-sig options from the beginning. I literally saw the Tesla Motors web site for the first time last August, so I had the benefit of more choices than those who ordered two or three years ago. That said, I can still understand why some people would be willing to pay more for the most exclusive model. Unfortunately, it sounds as though Tesla didn't completely live up its signature promises. I hope they do a better job with the Model X Signature.

 

[dsm363]

Moving forward, Sig reservations should be a better known commodity. They won't be in the start up phase anymore so hopefully it is handled better.

 

[bonnie]

At this point, I'm still holding onto my Model X signature reservation. But I'm watching.

 

[ipdamages]

i saw franz at dwell on design at the LA convention center in the summer of 2010 and asked him about what model s sigs would get that was unique. at that time, the signature red color has been announced, but that was about it. franz told me that they were talking about it, but i should definitely go sig as there were going to be some cool benefits. to date that hasn't turned out to be true, but i attribute that to the company having difficulties last year in the push to get the model S to market and become profitable. recall that just six months ago many were forecasting that tesla was not going to get over the hump and survive as a company. so i wasn't really surprised to see them not giving more to the tesla faithful, but rather trying to survive so they would be there in the future to support the cars, introduce more models, and thrive. that would be the biggest reward to the early adopters and enthusiasts.

i also recall some postings to the effect that elon has said that the model sig benefits story is not yet finished. but it is getting a bit late, and with the company now turning a profit, the time to step up and do sig owners right is nigh.

 

[ElSupreme]

franz told me that they were talking about it, but i should definitely go sig as there were going to be some cool benefits. to date that hasn't turned out to be true,

I honestly think that Tesla fully planned and expected for Signature cars to have extras, and be better than general production cars. But I think they slowly kept putting the Sig bonuses, into the regular cars because they didn't want to make a 'lesser' car. I truly and honestly believe Elon personally wants to make every Model S the best thing going, and doesn't want to cheap out on anything (except floor mats, those got seriously cheaped out on) on any car.

I don't think Tesla had any idea what to do for Sigs after they creeped the standard car up to the same level. So they threw in 12months data, and a duffle bag. Because it was easy. I still think there might be some grand gesture down the line, but it is probably low priority, and tangent on Tesla being profitable.

And I do think Sigs will get invites to further Model X and Gen III events, that us lowly production peeps won't be. What value that is to you is very individual, but I imagine it would have value to many Sig owners.

 

[bonnie]

And I do think Sigs will get invites to further Model X and Gen III events, that us lowly production peeps won't be. What value that is to you is very individual, but I imagine it would have value to many Sig owners.

They do know how to throw a party.

 

[AnOutsider]

At this point, I'm still holding onto my Model X signature reservation. But I'm watching.

Even if it turns out as poor as the Model S sigs seem to be turning out so far... Can you REALLY let go of #2? I mean... #2!!!!

As for me, I'd thought to put in a production reservation as well, but honestly, as I said up-thread, if the sig benefit isn't there, I'm fine going to the end of the list and getting a more refined vehicle.

 

[dsm363]

Tesla seems pretty responsive to most things. I'm hoping they handle the Sig list a little better with the X and provide a little more tangible benefits.

 

[ElSupreme]

Tesla seems pretty responsive to most things. I'm hoping they handle the Sig list a little better with the X and provide a little more tangible benefits.

I bet they could sellout the X Sig list today with the following statement "Traditional swing rear doors will be optional IF AND ONLY IF you reserve a signature Model X"

:biggrin:

 

[walla2]

Signatures are not good value for money, *unless you value getting your car early very highly*, and Angie was honest enough to admit it..

They did not fulfill any of the implied promises of a better car for any of us and for me and many others didn't deliver the car early or even on time. My original reservation would have delivered only a few days after my Sig or perhaps even before. Sig does not mean early. It means higher costs for a same or lesser car that might arrive early. This is why I can't advise a Signature at the present time. Also, I don't expect anything this late and the past perks like last minute party invites do little for people that work and can't fly to New York or San Fran on a whim.

The good news is that the last time we complained enough, Tesla listened and made improvements. I got a lot of flack for complaining about poor communication before on this forum including many PM's and posts asking me to leave. I do hope Tesla hears us, and they see value in their future Sig customers even if they toss the Model S Sigs to the curb.

 

[Joel]

The good news is that the last time we complained enough, Tesla listened and made improvements.

What improvements were made for Signature owners? I am unaware of an improvements for signatures. Please elaborate.

 

[brianman]

<discussion about Signature S>

The good news is that the last time we complained enough, Tesla listened and made improvements. I got a lot of flack for complaining about poor communication before on this forum including many PM's and posts asking me to leave. I do hope Tesla hears us, and they see value in their future Sig customers even if they toss the Model S Sigs to the curb.

What improvements were made for Signature owners? I am unaware of an improvements for signatures. Please elaborate.

I think he was referring to the following (the underlined) not the preceding.

- - - Updated - - -

Even if it turns out as poor as the Model S sigs seem to be turning out so far... Can you REALLY let go of #2? I mean... #2!!!!

My recollection is that S#2 didn't get S00002, and also got later delivery than 3-50 (or something like that). That might not be such a great number to get.

Generally, though, I agree. It's hard to let go of such a low VIN opportunity.

- - - Updated - - -

Brian, I now understand why my original post offended a few people. I had always assumed that ....

No worries. Arnold's post made a similar commentary about your earlier post. In that light, it makes a bit more sense but (for future reference) could have been toned differently so as not to have riled some of us up.

- - - Updated - - -

i also recall some postings to the effect that elon has said that the model sig benefits story is not yet finished. but it is getting a bit late, and with the company now turning a profit, the time to step up and do sig owners right is nigh.

I'm not optimistic that the follow-thru here will be compelling. But as both a Sig owner and a party interested in Tesla's future (as owner and appreciator of Tesla's general industry role), I hope they find a way to make the S Sig ownership nod, smile, and change our tunes such that we can wholeheartedly recommend Signature for those considering the X and Gen III.

As it stands today, this is like the missing rear floor mats and other seemingly easily avoidable missteps. In contrast, the Alcantara issue seems like a logistical and communications issue rather than a conscious organizational decision. As such, I don't find it as troubling -- a "young company" mistake vs. a "bad vision, philosophy" mistake.

 

[SuperCoug]

I find this OP very strange. If you wanted a lower priced Model S you certainly didn't have to order a Signature. You knew exactly what price Tesla was asking and you knew exactly what the general production cars cost. There was no mystery there. In fact, the Sig has always been a early adopter status symbol (complete with an enormous deposit). I could have ordered a Signature but I went with general production model because I couldn't justify the premium associated with a Sig but I certainly understood why those with the means gladly jumped on board to get one of the very first 1000 of these historical cars. We all knew Telsa would ramp production quickly and that those 1,000 Sigs would get produced pretty quickly. Being upset that other guys like me got our cars within a few months of yours for a lot less money with a much smaller deposit is silly.

Maybe I'm missing something. Being a Sig owner was never about getting the best deal but rather getting the best possible car before everybody else.

 

[brianman]

I find it somewhat interesting that most of the "I don't get the issue" are people that don't have sigs. Perhaps there's something about not having skin in the game.

 

[Johan]

+1

... I saw this coming and dropped my EU Sig. reservation in 2012.

 

[JohnQ]

I find it somewhat interesting that most of the "I don't get the issue" are people that don't have sigs. Perhaps there's something about not having skin in the game.

I think it tends to be about early vs. late reservation. I reserved end of 2009 and there was little pricing and option information and no guidance about what was or wasn't included in the signature pricing. Although tempted by the signature, I opted not to because of the amount of money I would tie up and the risk associated with that.

I presumed, based on indications from Tesla and Elon, that the signatures would have a number of significant enhancements as a reward for committing $40k well in advance of delivery and thus can completely understand the perspectives of signature (particularly early signature) reservation holders. Those who reserved later had much more information when making a decision.

 

[AnOutsider]

Being upset that other guys like me got our cars within a few months of yours for a lot less money with a much smaller deposit is silly.

Maybe I'm missing something. Being a Sig owner was never about getting the best deal but rather getting the best possible car before everybody else.

I think that you are indeed missing something. Did you just read the OP or did you also take in the many posts in this thread by actual sig owners who fully express what it is about the situation that concerns them?