Slipping in highway during winter - Regenerative driving problem

[Headache]

Driving my 2022 MYLR on wet ice, was a terrible experience. Have driven close to a million km mostly in winter conditions with other brands. This time, i was lucky my wife was home and not behind the steering wheel. Letting go of the "gas" locked all four wheels, and had to gently push it in again to regain control. What a terrible logic. My older 2001 model is far more forgiving on slippery surfaces. Let go of the throttle and let esp do its job, while i am steering and or braking. If you have a dangerous situation you would want your car stop as fast as you can. Just letting go of the gaspedal with ease does not do it. You should slam on the brakes, while steering to avoid any object in front of you. The developers in the sunny states should do a proper calibration of the equipment, and not in Alaska. Driving on frosty ice is not slippery at all.

 

[sleepydoc]

Driving my 2022 MYLR on wet ice, was a terrible experience. Have driven close to a million km mostly in winter conditions with other brands. This time, i was lucky my wife was home and not behind the steering wheel. Letting go of the "gas" locked all four wheels, and had to gently push it in again to regain control. What a terrible logic. My older 2001 model is far more forgiving on slippery surfaces. Let go of the throttle and let esp do its job, while i am steering and or braking. If you have a dangerous situation you would want your car stop as fast as you can. Just letting go of the gaspedal with ease does not do it. You should slam on the brakes, while steering to avoid any object in front of you. The developers in the sunny states should do a proper calibration of the equipment, and not in Alaska. Driving on frosty ice is not slippery at all.

Did ABS/traction control kick in at all? Also what tires do you have? If you're living in AK I assume you have something appropriate.

I only have my 2020 MYLR to go by so I can't compare to newer models. In general, if the weather's cold enough to have slippery conditions regenerative braking is also reduced but either way you have to feather the accelerator just like you'd feather the brake.

Many people have asked for a 'snow' mode that would reduce regenerative braking but no love so far. Tesla also used to have a menu option to reduce regenerative breaking but they unfortunately took that away some time ago.

 

[Headache]

Did ABS/traction control kick in at all? Also what tires do you have? If you're living in AK I assume you have something appropriate.

I only have my 2020 MYLR to go by so I can't compare to newer models. In general, if the weather's cold enough to have slippery conditions regenerative braking is also reduced but either way you have to feather the accelerator just like you'd feather the brake.

Many people have asked for a 'snow' mode that would reduce regenerative braking but no love so far. Tesla also used to have a menu option to reduce regenerative breaking but they unfortunately took that away some time ago.

No the abs did not kick in at all. The regen locked the wheels and the abs had nothing to work with. I do live outside of the states and drive on Nokian Hakkapelitta winter tires. probably one of the best unstudded winter tire there is. Unfortunately on soaking wet ice, it is almost like driving on summertires. Uphill the abs and traction did its job perfectly.
in a way i do understand why tesla has removed the possibility to reduce regen, but they should have incorporated a feature that prevented this total lockup.

 

[drtimhill]

Driving my 2022 MYLR on wet ice, was a terrible experience. Have driven close to a million km mostly in winter conditions with other brands. This time, i was lucky my wife was home and not behind the steering wheel. Letting go of the "gas" locked all four wheels, and had to gently push it in again to regain control. What a terrible logic. My older 2001 model is far more forgiving on slippery surfaces. Let go of the throttle and let esp do its job, while i am steering and or braking. If you have a dangerous situation you would want your car stop as fast as you can. Just letting go of the gaspedal with ease does not do it. You should slam on the brakes, while steering to avoid any object in front of you. The developers in the sunny states should do a proper calibration of the equipment, and not in Alaska. Driving on frosty ice is not slippery at all.

Well letting go of the "gas" will do that, just as applying the brakes too hard will, because, well, that's how regen works. What you seem to really be saying is "If I drive my Tesla like an automatic ICE car it doesnt do what I want it to do". Um , yes, true. But if you just ease back gently on the "gas" then the car will behave as you expect.

 

[sleepydoc]

No the abs did not kick in at all. The regen locked the wheels and the abs had nothing to work with. I do live outside of the states and drive on Nokian Hakkapelitta winter tires. probably one of the best unstudded winter tire there is. Unfortunately on soaking wet ice, it is almost like driving on summertires. Uphill the abs and traction did its job perfectly.
in a way i do understand why tesla has removed the possibility to reduce regen, but they should have incorporated a feature that prevented this total lockup.

Oops - I thought you said you lived in Alaska, not Norge! Yes, you’re not going to get much better than Nokians for winter tire, so unless they were bald that’s not the issue! (Min fru är finsk så Finska däck är de bästa som finns!)

It’s odd that the ABS or Traction control systems didn’t kick in. They should kick in whether you’re pressing on the brake pedal or not. If you have a chance in a safe place you might want to try recreating the problem or open contact your service center. If the traction control system is not activating when the wheels lock up that would be a significant safety issue.

 

[sleepydoc]

Well letting go of the "gas" will do that, just as applying the brakes too hard will, because, well, that's how regen works. What you seem to really be saying is "If I drive my Tesla like an automatic ICE car it doesnt do what I want it to do". Um , yes, true. But if you just ease back gently on the "gas" then the car will behave as you expect.

True, but if the car is programmed to use regenerative braking when you let off the accelerator then it should also be programmed to activate the ABS and/or Traction control systems if the wheels lock up.

 

[DanDi58]

Unfortunately on soaking wet ice, it is almost like driving on summertires.

Nothing is going to work well on ice.

 

[Headache]

Oops - I thought you said you lived in Alaska, not Norge! Yes, you’re not going to get much better than Nokians for winter tire, so unless they were bald that’s not the issue! (Min fru är finsk så Finska däck är de bästa som finns!)

It’s odd that the ABS or Traction control systems didn’t kick in. They should kick in whether you’re pressing on the brake pedal or not. If you have a chance in a safe place you might want to try recreating the problem or open contact your service center. If the traction control system is not activating when the wheels lock up that would be a significant safety issue.

A finish patriot. Have relatives in finland too.

Nothing is going to work well on ice.

No, but is just like aquaplaning, you need your tires to rotate to drain the water. Unfortunatly suddden and unexpected are part of most accidents. A research from 2005 claimed that electronic stability control was the biggest advance in car safety to date, by cutting frontal collisions in half during winterconditons. I feel the too agressive regen was a setback . I hope there will be a softwareupdate to tackle this. It is a serious problem.

 

[Headache]

Oops - I thought you said you lived in Alaska, not Norge! Yes, you’re not going to get much better than Nokians for winter tire, so unless they were bald that’s not the issue! (Min fru är finsk så Finska däck är de bästa som finns!)

It’s odd that the ABS or Traction control systems didn’t kick in. They should kick in whether you’re pressing on the brake pedal or not. If you have a chance in a safe place you might want to try recreating the problem or open contact your service center. If the traction control system is not activating when the wheels lock up that would be a significant safety issue.

Great. I have relatives in Finland too. Do occationally cross the border to buy some Grilli and cheap distilled beverages.

 

[drtimhill]

True, but if the car is programmed to use regenerative braking when you let off the accelerator then it should also be programmed to activate the ABS and/or Traction control systems if the wheels lock up.

Agreed.

 

[DrGriz]

I think the thing to remember, whether you have regenerative braking or not, is not to take your foot completely off the skinny pedal. Feathering the accelerator is the proper approach. Little control is better than no control.

I have S3XY buttons just so that I can turn off regen if I need to. Unfortunately, in an emergency, who has the wherewithal to push that button? The rest of the time we want Regen. Tough problem.

 

[Headache]

I think the thing to remember, whether you have regenerative braking or not, is not to take your foot completely off the skinny pedal. Feathering the accelerator is the proper approach. Little control is better than no control.

I have S3XY buttons just so that I can turn off regen if I need to. Unfortunately, in an emergency, who has the wherewithal to push that button? The rest of the time we want Regen. Tough problem.

So it is possible to turn the regen off? When you do that, is the electronic stability control still active?

 

[DrGriz]

So it is possible to turn the regen off? When you do that, is the electronic stability control still active?

Yes, it is possible using S3XY buttons, and yes as far as I know everything else is the same.

I haven't messed with it recently because the roads have been mostly clear (except the last mile to my house, which is snow floor until April now).

You can ask the folks who make S3XY buttons questions like that here: S3XY buttons at Abstract Ocean

 

[drtimhill]

I think the thing to remember, whether you have regenerative braking or not, is not to take your foot completely off the skinny pedal. Feathering the accelerator is the proper approach. Little control is better than no control.

I have S3XY buttons just so that I can turn off regen if I need to. Unfortunately, in an emergency, who has the wherewithal to push that button? The rest of the time we want Regen. Tough problem.

I have a "Snow" profile setup that has all the settings best for snow (chill power etc), then just switch to that when the weather is bad.

 

[rickybobbee]

use offroad mode in the snow and ice. it transfers power to the wheels way better so you feel grounded and don't fish tail

 

[DrGriz]

I have a "Snow" profile setup that has all the settings best for snow (chill power etc), then just switch to that when the weather is bad.

Chill is a definite. How much regen do you have in your setting? I really should sit down and do that.

 

[DrGriz]

use offroad mode in the snow and ice. it transfers power to the wheels way better so you feel grounded and don't fish tail

I'm not sure Off Road is really meant for highway driving on snow floor or ice, which is kind of what we are talking about here. Sure, it might work in the OPs situation, but traction control and ABS should be already working before you dig into the menu to initiate Off Road, and once you turn Off Road on, you disable traction control. You don't want to be driving around all winter with it turned on. At least, the manual suggests that:

• Off-Road Assist is designed to provide overall improvements when driving off-road. In addition to allowing the wheels to spin, Off-Road Assist balances the torque between the front and rear motors to optimize traction. Off-Road Assist improves traction on rough and soft surfaces where one side of the vehicle may lose traction while the other side still has traction. When Off-Road Assist is on, the accelerator pedal provides more gradual torque, which is useful for crawling at low speeds (for example, over rocky surfaces). When enabled, OFF-ROAD displays on the touchscreen above the driving speed.

After the circumstances that required you to turn on Slip Start or Off-Road Assist have passed, it is strongly recommended that you turn the setting off to re-enable traction control. If you leave these settings on, Traction Control automatically re-enables on your next drive.

 

[rickybobbee]

I'm not sure Off Road is really meant for highway driving on snow floor or ice, which is kind of what we are talking about here. Sure, it might work in the OPs situation, but traction control and ABS should be already working before you dig into the menu to initiate Off Road, and once you turn Off Road on, you disable traction control. You don't want to be driving around all winter with it turned on. At least, the manual suggests that:

no, youre right . Just in really bad winter condition when youre not going fast anyways

 

[tm1v2]

I feel like that "strongly recommended" warning is lawyer-speak for younger drivers who've come of age after traction control and stability control became omnipresent, who might use them as a crutch. If you can't modulate your right foot, then yes, get the nannies back on ASAP.

To me the manual's description of Off Road Assist sounds good for driving on snow and ice at any speed, including snow-covered highways.

 

[drtimhill]

Chill is a definite. How much regen do you have in your setting? I really should sit down and do that.

Can't recall all the settings, but I lower the acceration way down, minimum regen, and also the toggle for slippery roads, and tweak the various AEB settings also.