So what are the things that reduce range in a Tesla

[Tes LA]

Hey everyone, was doing some reading last night on these forums about the < 60kwh battery and what the potential epa would be in the base Model 3. I guess the next logical question for me would be, what are the things that would potentially reduce range?

I believe reading somewhere the pano roof is heavier and would reduce range a little bit. Not worried or anything and I'm assuming nothing would reduce range to the point its a deal breaker but in the grand scheme of things it would be nice to know. Larger wheels = less range? Would be nice to hear from the more knowledgeable folks on here.

Good day!

 

[voip-ninja]

The most likely day to day things that reduce range follow;

• Charging to 85% instead of 100% since it preserves the life of the battery.
• Driving faster than 55mph on highway
• Lots of rapid acceleration (stop light racing)
  
• Cold weather driving
• Traveling with a higher vehicle load (4 passengers + bags + skis get less range than a solo pilot).

 

[Maynerd]

Is cold weather driving impacting range because the occupants use heat to warm the interior of the car and use heat warmers? Or is cold weather just hard on the batteries? I am curious on how the heater and/or seat warmers have impact on the car's batteries.

 

[zer0cool]

The heavier roof and wheels are minor compared to these factors that reduce range:
1. Cold temperature: this has a HUGE effect on range, impacting range by 1/3 to maybe even 1/2 depending on how cold it gets to in your area. I live in South Carolina and my energy usage in the winter is easily 1/3 higher than in the summer!
2. Driving faster than 70mph: basically my understanding is EPA numbers are based on 65mph constant speed; and going above 70 starts to impact range more and more significantly, non-linearly increasing as your speed increases.
3. Lots of accelerations: this will decrease range but is not really that big of a deal on the highway since you are not accelerating that much.
5. Using lots of AC: this impacts range, but only by maybe a few %, instead of a huge impact for cold weather.

Of course, normally you don't charge the car to 100%. The recommended charge is generally <90%, so realistically on a daily basis, you are already at 90% range. Moreover, the battery degrades about 5% in the first 10k miles or so. Degradation slows down significantly after that. So basically after you ve owned the car for a few months, your real everyday range is about 85% of the advertised range, under ideal conditions. I would say in the summer, generally expect to get 90% of rated range assuming you limit yourself to 70mph; while in the winter, you ll probably be looking at 60-70% or so of your rated range.

 

[zer0cool]

It's a combination of reasons. One is that electric system is not really efficient at heating the cabin... an EV is not as warms as an ICE car; this is one of the weaknesses of EVs, especially for people who live in colder climates. Thus an EV expands significant energy to simply keep its occupants warm. Moreover, the battery needs to operate at a certain temperature; therefore when temp is low, the car expands energy to keep the battery warm.

 

[Tes LA]

The most likely day to day things that reduce range follow;

• Charging to 85% instead of 100% since it preserves the life of the battery.
• Driving faster than 55mph on highway
• Lots of rapid acceleration (stop light racing)
  
• Cold weather driving
• Traveling with a higher vehicle load (4 passengers + bags + skis get less range than a solo pilot).

The heavier roof and wheels are minor compared to these factors that reduce range:
1. Cold temperature: this has a HUGE effect on range, impacting range by 1/3 to maybe even 1/2 depending on how cold it gets to in your area. I live in South Carolina and my energy usage in the winter is easily 1/3 higher than in the summer!
2. Driving faster than 70mph: basically my understanding is EPA numbers are based on 65mph constant speed; and going above 70 starts to impact range more and more significantly, non-linearly increasing as your speed increases.
3. Lots of accelerations: this will decrease range but is not really that big of a deal on the highway since you are not accelerating that much.
5. Using lots of AC: this impacts range, but only by maybe a few %, instead of a huge impact for cold weather.

Of course, normally you don't charge the car to 100%. The recommended charge is generally <90%, so realistically on a daily basis, you are already at 90% range. Moreover, the battery degrades about 5% in the first 10k miles or so. Degradation slows down significantly after that. So basically after you ve owned the car for a few months, your real everyday range is about 85% of the advertised range, under ideal conditions. I would say in the summer, generally expect to get 90% of rated range assuming you limit yourself to 70mph; while in the winter, you ll probably be looking at 60-70% or so of your rated range.

Thanks guys. This is really interesting stuff. I guess I should be very thankful it never really gets cold in Socal. That's interesting to see about the recommended charge and I had no idea about that either, but then again I don't own a Tesla yet.

 

[ecarfan]

Range is primarily impacted by speed, going uphill vs. downhill, then weather: severe cold, significant headwinds, rain, snow. Everything else is minimal: bigger diameter wheels, heater use, AC use, windows/sunroof open (poorer aerodynamics). Music on, headlights on, make essentially no difference.

Of course going downhill can increase range. How much depends on how steep the grade is and for how long.

 

[ediot]

there are more

- disabling regen function and using mechanical brakes to slow down the car
- turning on the air con for cabin heat or coolness
- having your windows/ roof open can increase drag
- under inflated tires
- heavy load in the car
- lots of hills going up and down etc. you regen some power doing downhill but still uses more power to go the same distance compared to a flat road
- aggressive turning at corners
- late response to traffic, i.e. braking when you need to instead of letting off the GO pedal earlier, and accelerating fast instead of a bit earlier with a more gentle throttle

 

[zer0cool]

Oh ya, forgot rain (doesn't really snow where I am, so don't know how much that effects range). Basically if there's water on the ground, like you feel like driving on wet pavement, energy usage is up by about 10% compared with dry pavement.

 

[Maynerd]

while in the winter, you ll probably be looking at 60-70% or so of your rated range.

wow a 30-40% loss in range during cold times? That's pretty damn significant.

Oh ya, forgot rain (doesn't really snow where I am, so don't know how much that effects range). Basically if there's water on the ground, like you feel like driving on wet pavement, energy usage is up by about 10% compared with dry pavement.

I live in Seattle so this is not good news.

 

[wilhelmspencer]

Oh ya, forgot rain (doesn't really snow where I am, so don't know how much that effects range). Basically if there's water on the ground, like you feel like driving on wet pavement, energy usage is up by about 10% compared with dry pavement.

Is there data to back up your suggestion of 10% reduction in range for rain driving?

I have a hard time believing that. I understand that you may slip and slide a little more. But 10%? Maybe it is highway driving with an effect on aerodynamics you are suggesting?

 

[StraightDave]

So to max perform my Model 3 I should only drive it in San Diego on side roads to the grocery store.

 

[DFibRL8R]

Is there data to back up your suggestion of 10% reduction in range for rain driving?

I have a hard time believing that. I understand that you may slip and slide a little more. But 10%? Maybe it is highway driving with an effect on aerodynamics you are suggesting?

The rain causes additional losses in both the cumulative effect of the water impacting the car while driving and increased rolling resistance of the tires (ever hit a puddle at speed while coasting and feel the car slow down?) In my experience the 10% number is not far off.\

As for cold, it really depends on how cold. Also how warm you are trying to keep the cabin and if your battery is completely "cold soaked" when you begin your journey. Most folks who live in a cold climate have learned to charge the car such that charging finishes up just before you want to leave. This will precondition/warm the battery pack so the first 10 minutes of the trip the car is not using battery energy to warm the pack. You can also prewarm the cabin from the app so this can be done 20-30 min before you leave while still plugged in and not use extra battery. For me, my all-time worst month in 3 years of ownership (Jan 2015) used 347 Wh/mile instead of the rated 300 (about 16% worse than rated). In warm weather, I am about 16% better than rated.

 

[Az_Rael]

Don't forget winds. We have a lot of wind here in the high desert, and driving into a significant headwind will reduce your range significantly. I have lost 40% of the range in my Volt before driving 65mph into a 35 knot headwind.

Basically the rule of thumb I use for choosing a battery size for my daily commute, is twice the actual miles. So for my 80 mile round trip commute I would need a 160 mile capable battery to account for all the weather variables year round and not get range anxiety. So my "90%" charge rate in a Tesla would need to be at least 160 miles after the initial battery degradation period. I use the 90% number as you don't want to be doing 100% charges daily. The 215 range base model will satisfy that for my commute.

I will still probably purchase the largest battery available to make long distance travel easier, and to allow me to drive more "normally" at 72 or 75 when on trips.

 

[Blueeyedme]

I will still probably purchase the largest battery available to make long distance travel easier, and to allow me to drive more "normally" at 72 or 75 when on trips.

A larger battery does not really impact long distance travel. If you have a 70 or a 90, you still have to stop at the same SCs. A larger battery in that case means you get to leave a few minutes earlier. The SC network is a game-changer for long distance travel. I can take off across the country driving 75-80 and have no range anxiety at all in my 70. Where the battery size comes into play is your local daily driving miles and habits where the performance models with rocket starts suck up a lot of juice.

 

[voip-ninja]

Is there data to back up your suggestion of 10% reduction in range for rain driving?

I have a hard time believing that. I understand that you may slip and slide a little more. But 10%? Maybe it is highway driving with an effect on aerodynamics you are suggesting?

It's the same thing that applies to ICE vehicles, when driving on wet roads there is more rolling resistance as well as more friction in driving through "wet air".

If you do a google search you will find that claims of 10-20% reduction in fuel economy when driving in wet conditions are pretty common, it's certainly what I've observed.

Same thing will apply to EVs when driven in wet conditions.

 

[Az_Rael]

A larger battery does not really impact long distance travel. If you have a 70 or a 90, you still have to stop at the same SCs. A larger battery in that case means you get to leave a few minutes earlier.

Ah, but I plan to travel beyond the supercharger network. My family lives in rural West Texas, with no superchargers and little public charging.

 

[chipmunk]

Range is primarily impacted by speed, going uphill vs. downhill, then weather: severe cold, significant headwinds, rain, snow. Everything else is minimal: bigger diameter wheels, heater use, AC use, windows/sunroof open (poorer aerodynamics). Music on, headlights on, make essentially no difference.

Of course going downhill can increase range. How much depends on how steep the grade is and for how long.

I think you have a great list, but I would suggest that headwind and speed have essentially the same effect. A 10 MPH headwind is effectively the same thing as increasing your speed 10 MPH because you're having to push through more air. Yes, speed also increases friction on the road and tires, and in the drivetrain, but I'm betting those are less significant factors than pushing through air.

 

[Blueeyedme]

Ah, but I plan to travel beyond the supercharger network. My family lives in rural West Texas, with no superchargers and little public charging.

By the time your M3 gets here, that will most likely be resolved.

 

[Az_Rael]

By the time your M3 gets here, that will most likely be resolved.

Maybe. Even the current "2016" map doesn't show superchargers connecting Sweetwater and Lubbock. I would need Hwy 84 in TX filled in. Admittedly the Sweetwater and Cisco chargers will make the trip to Snyder TX possible (from DFW) but once I leave the Sweetwater supercharger, I won't have charging available other than 110 and maybe and RV spot for the duration of my trip. We often do side trips up to Lubbock for shopping/movies when I go, which is a 200 mile round trip plus running around town miles and that wouldn't be possible right now. Have to take an ICE.

Take a look at the plugshare map of Lubbock. Ugh. ONE Nissan dealer with a Level 2. For a town of 240,000 people. West Texas is really behind the curve right now.