Solar planning considerations - Solar Roof, new roof+solar, Tesla or ?

[treemanzarek]

I am going to get solar - hopefully this year. Started a Solar Roof project, got the design, but I have a custom house with integrated (my word) redwood gutters lined with copper, and copper downspouts, which I cannot remove. After a few back and forths with the advisor, I was told that it could be done but at a significant additional cost of removing and redoing the gutters. I think this is too much of a risk to the aesthetics of the house (and they haven't been here to confirm it can be rebuilt right), but you can see the roof/gutter edge in the picture below. In addition, the original estimate went up by about 10k for 'roof repairs', which was later explained as tearing off the old roof. How is that not already part of an integrated solar install?!! But I digress.

Nevertheless, I still like the idea. Seeing the picture below, I'm interested in opinions on solar roof for my case. Alternatively, I'm getting roofing quotes and trying to decide between conventional solar providers. Do I need to coordinate between these two? Any major difference in panel quality/efficiency? Appreciate the responses (and sorry for scattered questions).

 

[jrweiss98020]

I have a house with integrated gutters (though NOT copper!). I went with a regular roof replacement followed by solar panels and Powerwalls from a local installer.

IMO, Solar Roof is a great idea for aesthetics, but it's not worth the premium in price.

 

[jjrandorin]

I certainly wouldnt plan on Tesla being able to keep existing custom gutters and put them back. I would get panels if I wanted solar in such a situation since panels wouldnt interface with that at all.

It sounds like the gutters are basically irreplaceable, not a situation I would expect Tesla to perform well in.

 

[slcasner]

What is your existing roofing material? It looks similar in style to the look of the Tesla Solar Roof, so I can see why you might have been thinking of going that route. You should not consider removing and reinstalling the gutters; they wouldn't survive. It seems to be that the roof installation could be done without removing those gutters, but I don't know if you could convince Tesla of that. Tesla likes to install a drip-edge which is not compatible with having conventional metal gutters remain in place as the hanger straps get in the way of installing the drip-edge. But your gutters don't have any hanger straps.

I wanted to keep my galvanized steel gutters in place, but because my previous roof was wood shake on skip sheathing it was necessary to install a new layer of solid sheathing on top. That plywood would be on top of the existing gutter's drip edge, which means a new drip edge would be needed on top, which would run into the hanger conflict. I tried to get them to remove the skip sheathing and just install solid sheathing to the rafters while leaving the solid wood for the eaves in place, but they refused saying the tearoff team would not work on bare rafters due to fall risk. Eventually I had to give in, let them discard my existing gutters, and pay for new ones.

 

[treemanzarek]

Thanks guys, sounds like a no go and I'll just cancel the project rather than string it along.

My roof is one or the other of now failing 'fiber cement shake' shingles circa 1990s. It's all cracked up, for reference: American Cemwood Roof Shake Litigation, how to file a claim, how to identify Cemwood roofing, Cemwood Shakes, Permatek roof, Permatek II roof, Royal roof, Cemwood roofing, and Cascade shakes, Pacific Slate, Trieste tiles. I've owned the house for five years. Incidentally, any recourse for me? I don't have any paperwork for the roof so ...

Probably going to go with an asphalt shingle replacement and panels, better get started .

 

[jboy210]

Thanks guys, sounds like a no go and I'll just cancel the project rather than string it along.

My roof is one or the other of now failing 'fiber cement shake' shingles circa 1990s. It's all cracked up, for reference: American Cemwood Roof Shake Litigation, how to file a claim, how to identify Cemwood roofing, Cemwood Shakes, Permatek roof, Permatek II roof, Royal roof, Cemwood roofing, and Cascade shakes, Pacific Slate, Trieste tiles. I've owned the house for five years. Incidentally, any recourse for me? I don't have any paperwork for the roof so ...

Probably going to go with an asphalt shingle replacement and panels, better get started .

We had those shingles on our roof twice. The roof lasted less than 10 years and the manufacturer went bankrupt. Within 3 years they were so fragile you could not walk on the roof without cracking a shingle.

No idea about any claim, but given how the Perserdean bankruptcy went for us I would not hold out too much hope. But, @holeydonut is the expert on that sort of thing.

 

[holeydonut]

Thanks guys, sounds like a no go and I'll just cancel the project rather than string it along.

My roof is one or the other of now failing 'fiber cement shake' shingles circa 1990s. It's all cracked up, for reference: American Cemwood Roof Shake Litigation, how to file a claim, how to identify Cemwood roofing, Cemwood Shakes, Permatek roof, Permatek II roof, Royal roof, Cemwood roofing, and Cascade shakes, Pacific Slate, Trieste tiles. I've owned the house for five years. Incidentally, any recourse for me? I don't have any paperwork for the roof so ...

Probably going to go with an asphalt shingle replacement and panels, better get started .

The settlement for the Cemwood Shake says "You have until February 7, 2015 to send in a claim form." So, I think you're out of luck for filing a claim.

However, there is a scenario you may have recourse. Let's say the previous homeowners submitted a claim, and they received settlement money. Now let's also assume the same seller failed to disclosure the Cemwood shake issue to you (the buyer).

I think, if you were able to discover that the previous homeowner failed to disclose this issue to you while pocketing claim monies, then the previous homeowner could be held liable for your damages related to this Cemwood shake roofing tile.

Edit: California has a 4 year statute of limitations to pursue this angle... sellers will not be liable for damages after 4 years of your home sale. So yeah... maybe it's just time to move on and get a new non-shakey-roof.

PS. I am not a lawyer. And my avatar is a guy holding a blade disconnect... so do you really trust me as a good source of advice? Probably not.

 

[BGbreeder]

@treemanzarek It looks like you have a gorgeous house, and I can understand why you would want to preserve things like your gutters.

However, a solar roof is a big change, both in terms of cost and looks, so might I suggest that you take a step back and decide if you want that look, and if so, whether you want your particular gutters with that new look? Perhaps you want new copper to go with the black roof, or perhaps white gutters, or....

All the best,

BG

 

[ptdusn]

I am going to get solar - hopefully this year. Started a Solar Roof project, got the design, but I have a custom house with integrated (my word) redwood gutters lined with copper, and copper downspouts, which I cannot remove. After a few back and forths with the advisor, I was told that it could be done but at a significant additional cost of removing and redoing the gutters. I think this is too much of a risk to the aesthetics of the house (and they haven't been here to confirm it can be rebuilt right), but you can see the roof/gutter edge in the picture below. In addition, the original estimate went up by about 10k for 'roof repairs', which was later explained as tearing off the old roof. How is that not already part of an integrated solar install?!! But I digress.

Nevertheless, I still like the idea. Seeing the picture below, I'm interested in opinions on solar roof for my case. Alternatively, I'm getting roofing quotes and trying to decide between conventional solar providers. Do I need to coordinate between these two? Any major difference in panel quality/efficiency? Appreciate the responses (and sorry for scattered questions).

View attachment 767145

I would suggest getting a quote from Sunrun. They did a great job for us. In fact, they found we needed roof repairs and did it as part of our installation.

 

[83girl]

I am going to get solar - hopefully this year. Started a Solar Roof project, got the design, but I have a custom house with integrated (my word) redwood gutters lined with copper, and copper downspouts, which I cannot remove. After a few back and forths with the advisor, I was told that it could be done but at a significant additional cost of removing and redoing the gutters. I think this is too much of a risk to the aesthetics of the house (and they haven't been here to confirm it can be rebuilt right), but you can see the roof/gutter edge in the picture below. In addition, the original estimate went up by about 10k for 'roof repairs', which was later explained as tearing off the old roof. How is that not already part of an integrated solar install?!! But I digress.

Nevertheless, I still like the idea. Seeing the picture below, I'm interested in opinions on solar roof for my case. Alternatively, I'm getting roofing quotes and trying to decide between conventional solar providers. Do I need to coordinate between these two? Any major difference in panel quality/efficiency? Appreciate the responses (and sorry for scattered questions).

View attachment 767145

Our shingle roof was failing after 12 years...every time there was a wind event, we would lose a bit of shingles. Not a good scenario living in New England. We decided on the solar roof. The 10 kw system was less than if we purchased 10kw of solar panels and another cheap asphalt shingle roof. Do your homework. We didn't need to replace our gutters. They didn't even have to remove them to install the roof. Good luck with your decision. Don't forget about the tax credit. You can deduct the cost of the entire solar roof, active and dead shingles.

 

[treemanzarek]

We had those shingles on our roof twice. The roof lasted less than 10 years and the manufacturer went bankrupt. Within 3 years they were so fragile you could not walk on the roof without cracking a shingle.

No idea about any claim, but given how the Perserdean bankruptcy went for us I would not hold out too much hope. But, @holeydonut is the expert on that sort of thing.

The settlement for the Cemwood Shake says "You have until February 7, 2015 to send in a claim form." So, I think you're out of luck for filing a claim.

However, there is a scenario you may have recourse. Let's say the previous homeowners submitted a claim, and they received settlement money. Now let's also assume the same seller failed to disclosure the Cemwood shake issue to you (the buyer).

I think, if you were able to discover that the previous homeowner failed to disclose this issue to you while pocketing claim monies, then the previous homeowner could be held liable for your damages related to this Cemwood shake roofing tile.

Edit: California has a 4 year statute of limitations to pursue this angle... sellers will not be liable for damages after 4 years of your home sale. So yeah... maybe it's just time to move on and get a new non-shakey-roof.

PS. I am not a lawyer. And my avatar is a guy holding a blade disconnect... so do you really trust me as a good source of advice? Probably not.

Thanks for your inputs. I'm probably out of luck with any claim, seeing the time that has passed and lack of paperwork.

@treemanzarek It looks like you have a gorgeous house, and I can understand why you would want to preserve things like your gutters.

However, a solar roof is a big change, both in terms of cost and looks, so might I suggest that you take a step back and decide if you want that look, and if so, whether you want your particular gutters with that new look? Perhaps you want new copper to go with the black roof, or perhaps white gutters, or....

All the best,

BG

Thanks for the kind words. I did like the idea of a clean black roof, hence kept trying to find a solution, but decided against it due to cost and risk of bad outcomes.

I would suggest getting a quote from Sunrun. They did a great job for us. In fact, they found we needed roof repairs and did it as part of our installation.

Will do. Anyone else who has experience with Bay area installers who can do the roof and solar I'd appreciate references.

Our shingle roof was failing after 12 years...every time there was a wind event, we would lose a bit of shingles. Not a good scenario living in New England. We decided on the solar roof. The 10 kw system was less than if we purchased 10kw of solar panels and another cheap asphalt shingle roof. Do your homework. We didn't need to replace our gutters. They didn't even have to remove them to install the roof. Good luck with your decision. Don't forget about the tax credit. You can deduct the cost of the entire solar roof, active and dead shingles.

Thanks for your input, our shingles are chipping off like little bits of cement regularly as well. If the cost worked out the way you mention, it would be had to pass up, you're lucky! For me the estimate was already pretty high, then they added 10k for ripping the old roof out, and the gutters .... would need to be sawed off, and somehow patched together again at the end, for significant additional cost. Too bad for us.

 

[BGbreeder]

Clean Solar did our solar, powerwalls, and roof. DM and I will give you our sales representative who was super helpful.

 

[trautmane2]

Don't forget about the tax credit. You can deduct the cost of the entire solar roof, active and dead shingles.

Not to be a party-pooper but as far as I know, there is no IRS ruling on whether you can deduct the cost of the non-PV shingles (if there is, please post a reference). You can find more discussion about solar roof deductions here: New Solar Roof owners - how much can we write off in taxes?

 

[Vines]

I am going to get solar - hopefully this year. Started a Solar Roof project, got the design, but I have a custom house with integrated (my word) redwood gutters lined with copper, and copper downspouts, which I cannot remove. After a few back and forths with the advisor, I was told that it could be done but at a significant additional cost of removing and redoing the gutters. I think this is too much of a risk to the aesthetics of the house (and they haven't been here to confirm it can be rebuilt right), but you can see the roof/gutter edge in the picture below. In addition, the original estimate went up by about 10k for 'roof repairs', which was later explained as tearing off the old roof. How is that not already part of an integrated solar install?!! But I digress.

For the roofing work, I would recommend Shelton Roofing or Bill Hamilton Roofing. I work with both of them and others. If you want any kind of roof, they can provide it. Money is the only object here.

If you would like a reference for a PV contractor, send me a PM and I will connect you with one of the designers I work with. Then our company would work with your roofer and maintain that initial roof warranty after the PV installation.

 

[83girl]

Not to be a party-pooper but as far as I know, there is no IRS ruling on whether you can deduct the cost of the non-PV shingles (if there is, please post a reference). You can find more discussion about solar roof deductions here: New Solar Roof owners - how much can we write off in taxes?

Yes this has been mentioned multiple times on different threads. Just did my taxes with HR Block. They said the whole kit and kaboodle, if you will, was tax deductible. So, I eagerly await my 27.5 K USD tax return deposit into my account (we bought a Ford mach e last year too)

 

[ptdusn]

Yes this has been mentioned multiple times on different threads. Just did my taxes with HR Block. They said the whole kit and kaboodle, if you will, was tax deductible. So, I eagerly await my 27.5 K USD tax return deposit into my account (we bought a Ford mach e last year too)

So from what you are saying then, our total cost, which includes roof repair is deductable?

 

[jboy210]

So from what you are saying then, our total cost, which includes roof repair is deductable?

What do you classify as roof repair? Things like rafter repair or leak sealing that are priced separately would not be deductible according to the IRS.

But going over the roof and renailing anything that was loose, plus putting on a waterproof membrane would be deductible since they are part of the solar roof installation process. Pushing the limit this could even include installing new plywood sheeting on a skip sheeting roof (common with a shingled roof) since a solar roof requires complete plywood/OSB underlayment.

 

[ptdusn]

What do you classify as roof repair? Things like rafter repair or leak sealing that are priced separately would not be deductible according to the IRS.

But going over the roof and renailing anything that was loose, plus putting on a waterproof membrane would be deductible since they are part of the solar roof installation process. Pushing the limit this could even include installing new plywood sheeting on a skip sheeting roof (common with a shingled roof) since a solar roof requires complete plywood/OSB underlayment.

They did a lift and relay, picked up all the tiles, put new underlayment and laid the tiles back down. They replaced 15 tiles.

 

[jboy210]

They did a lift and relay, picked up all the tiles, put new underlayment and laid the tiles back down. They replaced 15 tiles.

Sounds like a good installer. I have not heard of one that put in new underlayment as part of a solar panel installation. Did you have to pay for the new underlayment?

With a solar roof the underlayment would be removed, the entire plywood/OBS inspected and repaired, every nail checked for flushness or replaced. and only then the new underlayment down. Then they install the active tiles and wiring, inactive tiles, metal edging, ridgeline vent, vent covers, etc.

 

[ptdusn]

Sounds like a good installer. I have not heard of one that put in new underlayment as part of a solar panel installation. Did you have to pay for the new underlayment?

With a solar roof the underlayment would be removed, the entire plywood/OBS inspected and repaired, every nail checked for flushness or replaced. and only then the new underlayment down. Then they install the active tiles and wiring, inactive tiles, metal edging, ridgeline vent, vent covers, etc.

Our installer was Sunrun, they subsidized $4k of the $8k cost. They did do what you said, checked the decking, new vents, new flashing, etc.. a very thorough job. Plus, it wasn't an outside contractor. It was one of their own roofing employees.